TopCat
Putin fanboy
So many good people of Eltham came forward despite the fear.
Stephen Lawrence murder trial begins at Old Bailey
- Thread starter Fedayn
- Start date
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
...and very quickly, but the police followed their own flawed and way-off the mark theories in that Stephen must have known his attacker and was probably dodgy, being as he was blackSo many good people of Eltham came forward despite the fear.
newbie
undisambiguated
aye, and I've a feeling they'll win it, as perhaps they should. Which saddens me because I believe they are racist murderers who should have been banged up a long time ago.
The headlines today seemed to be fairly unanimous that justice had been done, eventually. Everybody knew they did it, they shouldn't have got away with it for so long. That sentiment has been widespread for twenty odd years, like many others I first heard of them when I read about them on the front page of the Mail, and everything that's happened since has simply reinforced the well-known fact that they did it.
How can there be a jury untainted by those atmospherics? The presumption of guilt was tangible. Even the youngest jurors have spent their entire life with this coming up again and again with the constant theme that justice had not been done, everybody knew who did it, just as everybody knows that corrupt police were paid off by gangsters. No juror could consider an acquittal without anticipating that the massive weight of public opinion would think, and vociferously say or more likely SHOUT, that they'd got it wrong.
I'll be surprised if the appeal doesn't succeed.
.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
It was ever thus....and very quickly, but the police followed their own flawed and way-off the mark theories in that Stephen must have known his attacker and was probably dodgy, being as he was black
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not just the one I hope!
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
When I was reading news reports of the trial online I wasn't that sure that the evidence was strong enough and if I'd been a juror going on just what the news said I might have not been sure beyond reasonable doubt. Since I've looked deeper into stuff actually said and presented in court I would have found them guilty. There's all sorts of technical detail regarding the issue of cross-contamination that never made it into the news reports.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I dunno about that. Well if you had that view a few weeks ago it was not based on available evidence or if it was you were not evaluating it fairly in my view. The stuff that came out at the trial made a big difference.
Don't get me wrong, we knew they were violent racist bastards but killers of Lawrence?
Geri
wasn't born to follow
He's living in a bedsit above a shop.
newbie
undisambiguated
I knew little or nothing of them being violent or racist at any other time but concur with the inescapable conclusion that they were the killers of Lawrence. And have done for donkey's years. Haven't you?
You or any of us could have been on that jury, do you honestly believe you could push aside everything you've 'known' and every single conversation you've ever had about the subject and go solely on what you'd hear in court? Be fair and impartial to a pair of racist murderers who've got away with it for far too long? I don't think I could, nor would I trust that the other 11 could either.
You or any of us could have been on that jury, do you honestly believe you could push aside everything you've 'known' and every single conversation you've ever had about the subject and go solely on what you'd hear in court? Be fair and impartial to a pair of racist murderers who've got away with it for far too long? I don't think I could, nor would I trust that the other 11 could either.
Been catching up with this thread properly, took a while but thanks for all stuff that I wasn't yet clued up on. Plus repect also to plenty of regulars for getting so well informed and for their resarch ... 
Especially thanks for clarifying what the contemptible and loathesome Rod Liddle had been up to.
Very much hoping that Knight and the Acourts get their comeuppance soon ... some grounds for hope on that in earlier posts and links maybe.
Especially thanks for clarifying what the contemptible and loathesome Rod Liddle had been up to.
Very much hoping that Knight and the Acourts get their comeuppance soon ... some grounds for hope on that in earlier posts and links maybe.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
do you only get your info from this place, WoW?
newbie
undisambiguated
Come to that, given the stuff you've posted on this thread about the Acourts, would you resign because of bias if asked to be on a jury for one or both of them for this murder?
I'm not having a go or trying to put you on the spot, just trying to clarify why the verdict is likely to be overturned on appeal.
I'm not having a go or trying to put you on the spot, just trying to clarify why the verdict is likely to be overturned on appeal.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
No.
Nothing particularly groundbreaking in these two Guardian articles but very interesting reading all the same :
Vikram Dodd on the Stephen Lawrence and the determination of his parents :
Neville and Doreen Lawrence's long fight for justice sent shockwaves across all levels of British society
Sandra Laville on Dobson/Norris and associates :
Stephen Lawrence's murderers grew from swaggering teenage racists into jobless middle-aged men
Vikram Dodd on the Stephen Lawrence and the determination of his parents :
Neville and Doreen Lawrence's long fight for justice sent shockwaves across all levels of British society
Sandra Laville on Dobson/Norris and associates :
Stephen Lawrence's murderers grew from swaggering teenage racists into jobless middle-aged men
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
oh yeah, the Guardian too 
Why not? They're perfectly reasonable articles, nothing perfect or anything as I said.
And the G was all I had time to get more up to date with today, a bit of TV aside, until I found time tonight for this (obviously wider/broader ranging) thread.
Thanks for your input though ...
And the G was all I had time to get more up to date with today, a bit of TV aside, until I found time tonight for this (obviously wider/broader ranging) thread.
Thanks for your input though ...
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
i just found it extraordinary that you didn't know about the rod liddle stuff.
it's wise to get your info from a wide range of sources, not just this place.
it's wise to get your info from a wide range of sources, not just this place.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
The Transpontine blog mentioned has published a lot of interesting local information related to it.
The Dave Courtney thread from the Summer has some useful links, as did the Milly Dowler/NOTW one from July onwards.
There is also a thread specifically about the Daniel Morgan murder case.
Finally, there is of course the Morgan family's Justice For Daniel campaign website.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I didn't know about the Rod Liddle stuff either. So what? From what little I now know it would appear that Mr Liddle is someone I could happily live a life never coming to know about,
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Oh, ok.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The Mirror claims that there may now be further re-investigations into:
"...the racist murder of teenager Rolan Adams – who was stabbed to death in February 1991, two miles from where Stephen died – the racist stabbing of Asian restaurant worker Gurdeep Bhangal and the attempted murder of white youth Stacey Benefield."
with this lot in the frame.
"...the racist murder of teenager Rolan Adams – who was stabbed to death in February 1991, two miles from where Stephen died – the racist stabbing of Asian restaurant worker Gurdeep Bhangal and the attempted murder of white youth Stacey Benefield."
with this lot in the frame.
colacubes
Mr Hot Cookie
I just watched last night's Panorama and have been in tears all the way through it. I was only 15 when it happened and although I've been politically aware and active for a long time and followed the case as I was growing up it really brought it home to me what that family have been through. The lack of respect and dignity afforded to that poor kid while he was dying Just awful Although I'd always known about the fuck ups of the police and their corruption I'd never realised the lack of compassion he was shown as he was dying I thought I'd been hardened to this shit over the years through the job I work in and the dreadful injustices and discrimination I hear about but fucking hell 
Sorry - threads probably gone past it but I'm genuinely angry and upset. I hope they get the rest of them and the Lawrence family get the justice they deserve.
Just awful Although I'd always known about the fuck ups of the police and their corruption I'd never realised the lack of compassion he was shown as he was dying I thought I'd been hardened to this shit over the years through the job I work in and the dreadful injustices and discrimination I hear about but fucking hell Sorry - threads probably gone past it but I'm genuinely angry and upset. I hope they get the rest of them and the Lawrence family get the justice they deserve.
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