Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker - news and gossip
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donkyboy
Crazy Cat/Fox man
This trilogy is one of the worst examples of storytelling by making it up as you go along that I can think of. There’s no coherence and consequently it’s deeply unsatisfying. Good storytelling involves laying the seeds of the ending in the early scenes. In this, it’s all just a bunch of stuff that happens. It should involve character growth that comes about from a carefully constructed series of challenges with failure and learning from that failure. In this, nobody really learns anything from their actions and character change is the clunky consequence of different directors simply wanting different things from their 2D characters. Revelations should build towards a satisfying payoff. In this, there are constant contradictory revelations that are unwound as soon as the next writer needs something different to have happened. It’s a horrendous mess.
The prequels are objectively awful films but at least it’s the output of a storyteller with a story to tell. I have a clear vision in my head of what that story was, the narrative beats and what it all led to. What am I going to remember from this sequel trilogy? Honestly, nothing.
The prequels are objectively awful films but at least it’s the output of a storyteller with a story to tell. I have a clear vision in my head of what that story was, the narrative beats and what it all led to. What am I going to remember from this sequel trilogy? Honestly, nothing.
Reno
The In Kraut
Being a Star Wars agnostic, I finally got round to this last night. I thought this was a steaming pile of shit, the worst type of corporate franchise film-making which allowed itself to have a bunch of angry, entitled fanboys dictate how a film should be made. That's not how to make a good film.
I liked The Last Jedi, it wasn't perfect but it actually was a proper film with a point of view, some interesting ideas, politics which happen to agree with mine and a strong aesthetic. It's probably the only Star Wars film where characters make choices which surprised me, which I suppose is the problem for the fans. They should have had the courage to take the third film forward from there, instead they did apologetic backpedalling on every interesting idea The Last Jedi introduced. That's all this piss poor excuse for a conclusion achieved, its a staggering bore apart from that and often a rather ugly looking film.
Carrie Fisher's death is the one thing that couldn't be helped but the way they tried to integrate old deleted scenes into this was incredibly awkward and made me quite sad.
I'm out of here now, I just needed to vent.
I liked The Last Jedi, it wasn't perfect but it actually was a proper film with a point of view, some interesting ideas, politics which happen to agree with mine and a strong aesthetic. It's probably the only Star Wars film where characters make choices which surprised me, which I suppose is the problem for the fans. They should have had the courage to take the third film forward from there, instead they did apologetic backpedalling on every interesting idea The Last Jedi introduced. That's all this piss poor excuse for a conclusion achieved, its a staggering bore apart from that and often a rather ugly looking film.
Carrie Fisher's death is the one thing that couldn't be helped but the way they tried to integrate old deleted scenes into this was incredibly awkward and made me quite sad.
I'm out of here now, I just needed to vent.
Rosemary Jest
Wrong and Unstable
I watched it at the weekend and it was pretty bad, it just made no sense.
The Mandalorian on the other hand, is ace.
The Mandalorian on the other hand, is ace.
Reno
The In Kraut
It's my favourite thing that has come out of Star Wars
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Being a Star Wars agnostic, I finally got round to this last night. I thought this was a steaming pile of shit, the worst type of corporate franchise film-making which allowed itself to have a bunch of angry, entitled fanboys dictate how a film should be made. That's not how to make a good film.
I liked The Last Jedi, it wasn't perfect but it actually was a proper film with a point of view, some interesting ideas, politics which happen to agree with mine and a strong aesthetic. It's probably the only Star Wars film where characters make choices which surprised me, which I suppose is the problem for the fans. They should have had the courage to take the third film forward from there, instead they did apologetic backpedalling on every interesting idea The Last Jedi introduced. That's all this piss poor excuse for a conclusion achieved, its a staggering bore apart from that and often a rather ugly looking film.
Carrie Fisher's death is the one thing that couldn't be helped but the way they tried to integrate old deleted scenes into this was incredibly awkward and made me quite sad.
I'm out of here now, I just needed to vent.
Am also disappointed they didn't build on the Last Jedi, one of the best films of the franchise.
It was entertaining enough but easily the weakest of the new batch. Solo is a better film, compared to this.
ska invita
back on the other side
Dont blame "entitled fanboys" - this seems to be the take film journalists have had all through this mess - from what i can see fans basically disliked all three of them for the most part, blame the corporate culture of Disney for being incapable of making anything like a trilogy of coherent films. It's a fuck up because its a desperate, artless, rudderless attempt to box tick, cash in, and churn out saleable product by committee. These films should be taught in economics classes not film school. No "fanboy" would've "dictated" this mess. If anything feels dictated by the tastes of fanboys its The Mandalorian.
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Reno
The In Kraut
Film journalist = "fake news media" right ? I can't be arsed going much into a back and forth as I'm not invested enough in a piece of cinematic garbage like this but you have to be wilfully ignorant to not see The Rise of Skywalker as a result of the fan insanity that met The Last Jedi. The wisdom that nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans is true. This film doesn't just shit over the previous one, it cuts off its head and fucks its windpipe. It's an open secret that after Solo bombed, Disney and Kathleen Kennedy panicked and ordered much of The Rise of Skywalker to be reshot to please the fanboys who hated The Last Jedi to insure its success. Every previous fan complaint is addressed and made up for and then some.
Odd that you see The Mandalorian as the one with the fan problem. I'm not a Star Wars fan but the tv series is thankfully free of much of what I dislike about the franchise, being closely patterned after a spagetti western. It can be enjoyed even if you've never seen any previous Star Wars product.
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ska invita
back on the other side
You've misundestood my post - Madalorian doesnt have a "fan problem", the opposite, Mandalorian is the kind of work that fans always wanted, or wouldve dictated, would they have had a meaningful voice. You said in your posts these new films are shit because "entitled fanboys have dictated it as such", im saying dont blame fans, blame Disney.
Film journalists gave glowing reviews for the first two films, so yeah that is a type of fake news, they're either in the pocket or they're not very good at their job. ( Critic score of 93% and 91% on Rotten Tomatoes!) Sniped at "fanboys" for criticising too. They seem to have caught up by the time of the third film. There's little meaningful difference between the three new films really, much as the prequels are much of a muchness, wether Phantom Menace is shitter than Clones doesnt really matter . What differences there are are sidenotes, its the worst excessive hypercorporate film making possible, all three of them, kept afloat purely by the budget spend and previous glories. 91%
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
I have been watching Star Wars for over 40 years and while I was disappointed with the prequels, I genuinely liked the new batch.
I would say that the latest ep is the Return of the Jedi of this lot. Enjoyable but eminently silly.
I would say that the latest ep is the Return of the Jedi of this lot. Enjoyable but eminently silly.
Reno
The In Kraut
I liked the first two films, thanks for reminding me to send Disney an invoice.You've misundestood my post - Madalorian doesnt have a "fan problem", the opposite, Mandalorian is the kind of work that fans always wanted, or wouldve dictated, would they have had a meaningful voice. You said in your posts these new films are shit because "entitled fanboys have dictated it as such", im saying dont blame fans, blame Disney.
Film journalists gave glowing reviews for the first two films, so yeah that is a type of fake news, they're either in the pocket or they're not very good at their job. ( Critic score of 93% and 91% on Rotten Tomatoes!) Sniped at "fanboys" for criticising too. They seem to have caught up by the time of the third film. There's little meaningful difference between the three new films really, much as the prequels are much of a muchness, wether Phantom Menace is shitter than Clones doesnt really matter . What differences there are are sidenotes, its the worst excessive hypercorporate film making possible, all three of them, kept afloat purely by the budget spend and previous glories. 91%
T & P
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It has just become ‘free’ to Sky Cinema subscribers so just started my second viewing of the film. I suspect like with the previous two films, the more times I watch it the worse it will get
As an aside thought, on the surface it seems remarkable that Palpatine has been played by the same actor since the original trilogy, but then Ian McDiarmid was a mere 39 y.o. when he was cast as the Emperor in Return of The Jedi. An unexpected casting given the age difference between the man and the character, though it certainly paid off.
As an aside thought, on the surface it seems remarkable that Palpatine has been played by the same actor since the original trilogy, but then Ian McDiarmid was a mere 39 y.o. when he was cast as the Emperor in Return of The Jedi. An unexpected casting given the age difference between the man and the character, though it certainly paid off.
You poor fool. Only now, at the end, do you believe.It has just become ‘free’ to Sky Cinema subscribers so just started my second viewing of the film. I suspect like with the previous two films, the more times I watch it the worse it will get
As an aside thought, on the surface it seems remarkable that Palpatine has been played by the same actor since the original trilogy, but then Ian McDiarmid was a mere 39 y.o. when he was cast as the Emperor in Return of The Jedi. An unexpected casting given the age difference between the man and the character, though it certainly paid off.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Rewatching Mandalorian at the moment. They fucking nailed the aesthetic, and the light-touch world building. People don't stand around explaining the plot to each other, it's all shown. We don't see the main character's face, but we know what he's thinking and feeling because the stories are coherent and properly told.
T & P
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Second
A few thoughts about various plot holes and failings imo:
To be fair the first two thirds are fairly watchable and the film carries itself well with a good pace and right amount of action.Though its shortcomings come to roost in full in the conclusion.
A few thoughts about various plot holes and failings imo:
The Sith wayfinder subplot feels a bit silly and a glorified satnav.
Kylo Ren’s ability to not just telepathically connect with Rey but cross over and grab physical objects such as her necklace is an absurd upgrade on all previous Force powers by all other Jedi or Sith lords, And criminally underused by Kylo Ren. All he gets is a bloody necklace.
Through the entire new trilogy the First Order acquires technology orders of magnitude more powerful and advanced than the Empire had managed. Planet sized Death Stars that can destroy entire systems with one shot from another system light years away. Being able to track ships in hyperspace. And finally portable planet-killing death rays that fire from a cannon mounted on Star Destroyers. Presumably without the aid of kyber crystals. The Resistance meanwhile has a pitiful fleet that makes the Rebel Alliance fleet look formidable by comparison.
And yet the mighty Star Destroyers of the First Order are laughably vulnerable to small fire. If memory serves, in the original trilogy there were no Star Destroyers anywhere near blown out by direct fire from the biggest ships in the Rebel fleet, never mind X-wing fighters and other small ships. In ROTJ they manage to disable a super star destroyer which only gets destroyed after drifting and crashing into the Death Star. Yet in this film they explode like fireworks after a moderate attack from small ships, which no matter how many seems akin to destroying a modern battle tank with twenty blokes shooting it with assault rifles. Or fucking arrows, as the case might be. Not to mention the ultra mighty dreadnought in the previous film, which was obliterated with the Star Wars equivalent of a First World War biplane hand dropping bomblets on it from above.
Kylo Ren’s ability to not just telepathically connect with Rey but cross over and grab physical objects such as her necklace is an absurd upgrade on all previous Force powers by all other Jedi or Sith lords, And criminally underused by Kylo Ren. All he gets is a bloody necklace.
Through the entire new trilogy the First Order acquires technology orders of magnitude more powerful and advanced than the Empire had managed. Planet sized Death Stars that can destroy entire systems with one shot from another system light years away. Being able to track ships in hyperspace. And finally portable planet-killing death rays that fire from a cannon mounted on Star Destroyers. Presumably without the aid of kyber crystals. The Resistance meanwhile has a pitiful fleet that makes the Rebel Alliance fleet look formidable by comparison.
And yet the mighty Star Destroyers of the First Order are laughably vulnerable to small fire. If memory serves, in the original trilogy there were no Star Destroyers anywhere near blown out by direct fire from the biggest ships in the Rebel fleet, never mind X-wing fighters and other small ships. In ROTJ they manage to disable a super star destroyer which only gets destroyed after drifting and crashing into the Death Star. Yet in this film they explode like fireworks after a moderate attack from small ships, which no matter how many seems akin to destroying a modern battle tank with twenty blokes shooting it with assault rifles. Or fucking arrows, as the case might be. Not to mention the ultra mighty dreadnought in the previous film, which was obliterated with the Star Wars equivalent of a First World War biplane hand dropping bomblets on it from above.
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Oh the plot holes don’t stop there! It’s fundamentally broken, if you stop and think about it (which the film desperately tries to stop you doing by breathlessly accelerating its way from beginning to end). For example
What’s going on with that Sith planet? Who is making and piloting these Star destroyers? Do they live there? On what? Where’s the food and other support systems for tens of not hundreds of thousands of people? Or do they commute? How? Or the most ridiculous idea of all, is Palpatine able to conjure up complex machinery and adult humans just with his mind?
And what is Palpatine anyway? Is he supposed to have survived the Death Star explosion and floated to this planet? Or was the prior Palpatine some kind of clone, in which case what was the fucking plan for this one, other than living attached to tubes?
It’s ALL bobbins. The original trilogy has a simple coherent story to tell. This bunch of making it up as you go along (by a guy with, lets face it, a track record of that kind of thing) is just a mess of moments
And what is Palpatine anyway? Is he supposed to have survived the Death Star explosion and floated to this planet? Or was the prior Palpatine some kind of clone, in which case what was the fucking plan for this one, other than living attached to tubes?
It’s ALL bobbins. The original trilogy has a simple coherent story to tell. This bunch of making it up as you go along (by a guy with, lets face it, a track record of that kind of thing) is just a mess of moments
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ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
I only got about 45 minutes in before calling it quits. The suddenly Palpatine is back and the wayfinder shite is really jarring. I just got bored. I'm sure I'll catch it all on some wet afternoon. Never been a fan of writing a story as you go, needs to be fully crafted form end to end. Just look how lost battlestar Galactica and . . .well lost ended up.
Yeah, this plot was go to a place to get a thing to go to a place to get a thing to go to a place to get a thing to go to a place. There was no time in that for actual storytelling. Oh look, a character is dead! Oh no they’re not! Who cares about that, now we have to rush off somewhere else! Here’s a new character! Eh, forget them, let’s go somewhere new now!
T & P
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That has been a constant bone of contention throughout the life of the franchise, hasn't it. George Lucas to this day defends the inclusion of the infamous Jar Jar Binks character by saying Star Wars was always meant to be a family product and targeted to kids as much as grown ups. In a way he is right (though Binks is still complete shite of course). As mentioned upthread the biggest Star War haters are their diehard fans, me included I guess.
However that's not the problem IMO. There are countless child-oriented films that are highly satisfying to adults and well written. The biggest problem of this entire trilogy is the lack of a story arc comprising all three films. It reminds me of that literary exercise game whereby each participant adds a paragraph to a story with no regard to the tale so far, and leaves it to the next player to sort out the mess.
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