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Star Trek TV series(es) - general discussion of the franchise

I think we were supposed as a knowing audience to realise that was bullshit A bit like the stuff about how very few Trills could join in Deep Space Nine being a lie and a means of social control.
I like this idea. It chimes with the High Command’s refusal to accept time travel as possible despite the mounting evidence.

Yes, if it’s just an official line based on ideological distaste, then I’m OK with that. Especially if we can assume this official resistance has fallen by the time of TOS, and that mind melds and telepathic ability are accepted into Vulcan spirituality by the time of Spock.
 
DS9 was always going to be more soap-like or at least more situationaly familiar. Because its a space station. Thats why I never clicked with it at the time of airing tbf, there was the sense with TNG that the ship could be anywhere, in any situation this week. I did rate DS9 a lot on the years later rewatch, and I do mean yrs. I binged the dominion war stuff on netflix lol
 
DS9 was always going to be more soap-like or at least more situationaly familiar. Because its a space station. Thats why I never clicked with it at the time of airing tbf, there was the sense with TNG that the ship could be anywhere, in any situation this week. I did rate DS9 a lot on the years later rewatch, and I do mean yrs. I binged the dominion war stuff on netflix lol
DS9 is the best of all the Star Trek shows given the way television went shortly after - it did big multi-season story arcs better than any Star Trek before or since. It's not a traditional Star Trek show though, which is why I think a lot of fans who prefer one-off conceptual bottle episodes don't get it.

I think I actually prefer TNG for comfort viewing, but if I want good television, DS9 wins every time.
 
DS9 is the best of all the Star Trek shows given the way television went shortly after - it did big multi-season story arcs better than any Star Trek before or since. It's not a traditional Star Trek show though, which is why I think a lot of fans who prefer one-off conceptual bottle episodes don't get it.

I think I actually prefer TNG for comfort viewing, but if I want good television, DS9 wins every time.
no BSG without DS9 as a forerunner?
 
no BSG without DS9 as a forerunner?
Probably true both because of DS9 proving that multi-season storytelling in sci-fi could work, but also because Ronald D Moore cut his teeth writing and producing the same type of stories for DS9 that he ended up doing four years later for BSG.
 
DS9 was always going to be more soap-like or at least more situationaly familiar. Because its a space station.
For me it’s more than that: the interpersonal tension and “office politics” was new to Trek (for me. Remember I only knew TOS and TAS). TNG had a very similar interpersonal dynamic to TOS. But suddenly DS9 didn’t. And to me, seeing it for the first time, it had dated more than TNG in that respect.

Thats why I never clicked with it at the time of airing tbf, there was the sense with TNG that the ship could be anywhere, in any situation this week. I did rate DS9 a lot on the years later rewatch, and I do mean yrs. I binged the dominion war stuff on netflix lol
It’s been an interesting experiment for me. I have no nostalgia for TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. They’re all exactly as new to me as the time it’s taken me to binge them. And so I’m watching them post-Sopranos, post-Mad Men, post-Breaking Bad. As binge series.

And in that environment, for me with no preconceptions (other than a 60s/70s childhood steeped in TOS lore, and an 80s VHS generation attachment to the TOS films), the same things are not holding up for me that will hold up for people who saw TNG onwards at the time.

And for me DS9 largely doesn’t work. Despite the fans who saw it in the day rating it. Whereas ENT does (so far), despite fans who followed all the franchise largely hating it.
 
I've never really watched much star trek but am thinking of beginning with TNG. 40 quid on Amazon though. Reckon its worth it? You get 25 episodes like.
 
For me it’s more than that: the interpersonal tension and “office politics” was new to Trek (for me. Remember I only knew TOS and TAS). TNG had a very similar interpersonal dynamic to TNG. But suddenly DS9 didn’t. And to me, seeing it for the first time, it had dated more than TNG in that respect.


It’s been an interesting experiment for me. I have no nostalgia for TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. They’re all exactly as new to me as the time it’s taken me to binge them. And so I’m watching them post-Sopranos, post-Mad Men, post-Breaking Bad. As binge series.

And in that environment, for me with no preconceptions (other than a 60s/70s childhood steeped in TOS lore, and an 80s VHS generation attachment to the TOS films), the same things are not holding up for me that will hold up for people who saw TNG onwards at the time.

And for me DS9 largely doesn’t work. Despite the fans who saw it in the day rating it. Whereas ENT does (so far), despite fans who followed all the franchise largely hating it.
Plus you hated siskos acting a lot ennit. It is an intersting experiment to read as well, you were far kinder to Voyager than I ever was.

Can I convince you to give Battlestar Galactica a go when you've done with trek? it is worth it.
 
This is a good article I read recently, that talks (among other stuff) about why TOS and TNG worked, but also what people loved about DS9: Star Trek: why we can't wait to go back to the 24th century

"[TOS] was a show designed for syndication. This meant that episodes needed to be entirely self-enclosed, with characters returning to the status quo at the end of each adventure so that networks could play them in any order, using a handful of Kirk’s escapades to neatly plug holes in their schedule whenever they needed to.

With The Original Series, it’s possible to dive into any episode (bar, possibly, the series’ lone two-parter) and quickly grasp not just the plot, but the dynamics between the three lead characters. McCoy is never shown to grow more tolerant of Spock’s stoicism, for instance – we assume that their friendship is growing stronger over time, because that’s what friendships often do, but there’s no real evidence of that within the show itself. No-one’s promoted or reassigned, the main characters are effectively immortal and past adventures are spoken of only in oblique terms even when villains like Harry Mudd do make a return appearance, many of which happened in the animated follow-up rather than the live-action show.

While we’ll never know for sure if the aborted sequel Star Trek: Phase II would have continued to tell isolated, stand-alone adventures, the Star Trek movies began to head down a very different path. Even when the films didn’t immediately follow on from one another, they began to embrace the show’s own continuity and build upon past events, allowing the characters to grow and change over time.

Likewise, 1987’s Star Trek: The Next Generation, which debuted while the original crew were still riding high at the box office, almost immediately went out of its way to push beyond the confines of syndicated TV. During its pilot episode, Encounter At Farpoint, we see the main cast encountering one another for the first time - along with a few reunions - and as they get acquainted, we come to know them too. Early on the story chooses to follow Riker, using him as our proxy while he tours this unfamiliar Enterprise and meets its austere new captain. It’s a measured and deliberate premiere that takes time to make its audience familiar not just with the full ensemble cast, but also with the ship they’ll be calling home. (By contrast, we still don’t know for sure how prime-universe Kirk, Spock and McCoy first met.)

As the story goes, TNG’s original remit would have been to make a clean break within the series canon, never acknowledging The Original Series. James T. Kirk, it was felt, would have long ago been consigned to history as just another heroic Starfleet captain. In practice, this conceit is discarded barely half an hour into the pilot, when DeForest Kelley’s unnamed character appears to give the ship and its crew his blessing. Given that the very next episode would go on to be a sequel of sorts to classic story The Naked Time, the message was loud and clear: The Next Generation would be unrepentantly building upon what had come before."

Until DS9...

"It was, perhaps, the launch of Deep Space Nine and the exodus of several regular characters that helped cement Star Trek as something with a lore that mattered. While not particularly commonplace, crossovers of characters and themes did occur – rebel group The Maquis first appeared by name in Deep Space Nine, for example, but had had the seeds of their discontent sown in a TNG episode that aired a few weeks prior. Even if characters weren’t popping up in one another’s programmes every week, it certainly felt like they could.

To anyone growing up who desperately wished they could spend time in Star Trek’s universe, this world-building was hugely important. Whether you were modelling the Enterprise in Doom, prepping your latest cosplay ensemble or fleshing out a Klingon warrior for an online MUD, a group of Hollywood’s most talented creators were bringing you and fans like you into a complex and nuanced fantasy universe, expanding and enriching it in 45-minute increments every week.

Having created a rich tapestry of alien cultures and worlds, the writers soon began to unravel it in search of new stories to tell, shifting threads and recombining them in new patterns. The Maquis were destroyed at the hands of the Dominion even as the Klingon Empire severed ties with the Federation and launched an invasion of Cardassia. The Ferengi Alliance found itself with a Grand Nagus promoting equal rights and free commerce, while the Romulan Senate was completely annihilated."
 
I watched a couple of ENT episodes and it is actually quite good. I particularly like them having a linguist on the team cause now I get to feel how proper science graduates feel when they watch any Star Trek:

The syntax isn't aligning! What?

The grammar sounds bimodal! Oh come on. Every single word except 'the' in that sentence is rubbish.
 
I like this idea. It chimes with the High Command’s refusal to accept time travel as possible despite the mounting evidence.

Yes, if it’s just an official line based on ideological distaste, then I’m OK with that. Especially if we can assume this official resistance has fallen by the time of TOS, and that mind melds and telepathic ability are accepted into Vulcan spirituality by the time of Spock.
The Vulcan stuff eventually goes somewhere.
Unless it somehow goes badly wrong over the next two and a half seasons, I honestly rate it higher than I do DS9.

If anything it gets better.
 
I’m finding it a it hard to swallow all the species we’re bumping into hundreds of years before Kirk or Picard first meet them.

OK, the Tribble incident was amusing. Phlock says “the only thing that keeps their their exponential breeding in check are the lizards on their own planet”, before feeding it to a lizard.

But a whole episode (initially based on the Thing. So props there) about the
Borg? Oh come on. I know they don’t learn their name. But they learn enough for Star Fleet to be well informed and prepared when Picard “first” encounters them. It’s annoying. Picard would definitely have read up on all the tactical information he could find. And although Kirk probably wouldn’t have, Spock would.

Continuity matters. If you’re not going to pay attention to continuity, you may as well call it something else. Then you can invent a whole new universe to deal with.
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(Edited to correct fat fingered garble).
 
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I might join you then, yrs since I watched it through. I will 'loan' a box set from the internet, the opening episode '33' could stand alone as a great piece of sci fi.

It is great but it's essential that danny watched the miniseries first, otherwise it doesn't make sense
 
I’m finding it a it hard to swallow all the species we’re bumping into hundreds of years before Kirk or Picard first meet them.

OK, the Tribble incident was amusing. Phlock says “the only thing that keeps their their exponential breeding in check are the lizards on their own planet”, before feeding it to a lizard.

But a whole episode (initially based on the Thing. So props there) about the
Borg? Oh come on. I know they don’t learn their name. But they learn enough for Star Fleet to be well informed and prepared when Picard “first” encounters them. It’s annoying. Picard would definitely have read up on all the tactical information he could find. And although Kirk probably wouldn’t have, Spock would.

Continuity matters. If you’re not going to pay attention to continuity, you may as well call it something else. Then you can invent a whole new universe to deal with.
.


(Edited to correct fat fingered garble).
Chris Pine wouldn't but Kirk would.
 
Has anyone been watching the Short Treks they've released to bridge the gap until season 2 of Discovery comes out? The first one wasn't great, but the second was fantastic!
 
I've never really watched much star trek but am thinking of beginning with TNG. 40 quid on Amazon though. Reckon its worth it? You get 25 episodes like.

Don't start with series one. General wisdom is that it's largely crap until series 3.
 
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