Should there be a second referendum? New question.

[brogdale]

I think we voted leave and we're getting BINO is probably closer to the reality.

Seems reasonable, as the UK state tended only to want EU membership INO.

 

[William of Walworth]

I think we voted leave and we're getting BINO is probably closer to the reality.

And who's to say that plenty of people voting leave were imagining a softish, straightforwardish Brexit anyway?

They could hardly be blamed if they did think that, given the referendum (question and campaign) didn't offer any actual detail ...

 

[killer b]

Luckily, it was only an advisory plebiscite, so the only sane and reasonable course of action is to disregard it.

I love all the sane and rational takes that totally disregard political reality to come to their sane and rational conclusions.

 

[MickiQ]

I voted Remain not because I thought stayng in the EU was a great idea or leaving was a bad idea but because I thought we've spent 40 yrs doing ever closer integration and we just can't make Leave work, I gain little satisfaction from being proven right (OK well a bit but I'm human after all)
I have doubts about a 2nd referendum though what is going to be on the form?
a) Knock Brexit on the head
b) no Deal
c) May's shitty deal
d) The fantasy Brexit with unicorns we were all promised.
e) any combination of the above.
What happens if the result is still Leave? or ultra close?
Not thnking this through created this mess in the first place, still not thinking it through is unlikely to solve things.

 

[killer b]

I love all the sane and rational takes that totally disregard political reality to come to their sane and rational conclusions.

Is it rational to pretend that any government can simply disregard the result of the referendum? Is it sane to repeat the same mantra advisory referendum, disregard it weekly for two years, in the face of clear evidence that it's never going to happen?

 

[Idaho]

a reaver

I prefer the term "reliever".

Pool needs an - if you really wanted to have a referendum on the EU, you shouldn't have done it like that - option.

 

[ska invita]

Not thnking this through created this mess in the first place, still not thinking it through is unlikely to solve things.

Dont worry theres 90 minutes tabled for a plan b, im sure theyll come up with something

 

[isvicthere?]

I love all the sane and rational takes that totally disregard political reality to come to their sane and rational conclusions.

 

[Teaboy]

Dont worry theres 90 minutes tabled for a plan b, im sure theyll come up with something

It'll be the like The Apprentice when the groups are given a task.

 

[isvicthere?]

Is it rational to pretend that any government can simply disregard the result of the referendum? Is it sane to repeat the same mantra advisory referendum, disregard it weekly for two years, in the face of clear evidence that it's never going to happen?

Yes and yes.

 

[ska invita]

It'll be the like The Apprentice when the groups are given a task.

Talking of which does any of this ever go to the Lords? Maybe Alan Sugar will threaten to leave the country again (fingers crossed on that one)

Lord Sugar pledges to leave UK if Jeremy Corbyn becomes Prime Minister

 

[killer b]

Yes and yes.

how's it working out as a strategy?

 

[Pickman's model]

I prefer the term "reliever".

Pool needs an - if you really wanted to have a referendum on the EU, you shouldn't have done it like that - option.

Everyone believes *that*

 

[killer b]

I mean... it's the mirror image of the people you hate all yelling 'leave means leave! just get on with it!' into the void. It might have some sort of cathartic effect I guess, but you're all going to be disappointed in the end.

 

[isvicthere?]

how's it working out as a strategy?

It's not a strategy, it's a fact.

 

[killer b]

It's not a strategy, it's a fact.

It's not really though is it? It's just a fantasy. A government that wanted to cancel brexit and had the numbers in parliament to do it could do it, regardless of the legal status of the referendum. The reason it isn't being cancelled has nothing to do with it's legal status.

Are there any serious pro-EU politicians or commentators actually pushing for a cancellation? No. Even the most europhile Lib Dems aren't - they're all pushing for a new referendum. Because they recognise that any cancellation of brexit requires a democratic mandate. Like the democratic mandate of the last - advisory - referendum has.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Is it rational to pretend that any government can simply disregard the result of the referendum? Is it sane to repeat the same mantra advisory referendum, disregard it weekly for two years, in the face of clear evidence that it's never going to happen?

Actually, much like stopped clocks, you might find its right eventually.

 

[SpackleFrog]

It's not really though is it? It's just a fantasy. A government that wanted to cancel brexit and had the numbers in parliament to do it could do it, regardless of the legal status of the referendum. The reason it isn't being cancelled has nothing to do with it's legal status.

Are there any serious pro-EU politicians or commentators actually pushing for a cancellation? No. Even the most europhile Lib Dems aren't - they're all pushing for a new referendum. Because they recognise that any cancellation of brexit requires a democratic mandate. Like the democratic mandate of the last - advisory - referendum has.

To be fair, if you're serious you're not gonna do it openly are you?

 

[killer b]

how... how would you do it secretly? I don't think you could quietly cancel brexit and hope no-one noticed.

 

[chilango]

how... how would you do it secretly? I don't think you could quietly cancel brexit and hope no-one noticed.

I wouldn't put past some of them to think it'd be worth a try tbh.

 

[Argonia]

Which person is a leaver who wants a second referendum? What's the logic in that?

 

[killer b]

Which person is a leaver who wants a second referendum? What's the logic in that?

They just want to see Tony Blair's face when leave wins again.

 

[Raheem]

Which person is a leaver who wants a second referendum? What's the logic in that?

Surprised there's not more of them. If you really want to leave, a second referendum seems like your best shot.

 

[Yossarian]

Which person is a leaver who wants a second referendum? What's the logic in that?

"Double or nothing" seems like it could be a winning bet, under the circumstances - going by the number of people I've heard say things like "I voted Remain but would vote Leave now because I don't like what Remainers are saying about Leavers," I'd put good money on Leave winning a second referendum.

 

[ferrelhadley]

"I voted Remain but would vote Leave now because I don't like what Remainers are saying about Leavers,"

Away and dont talk pish.

 

[killer b]

Polling indicates around 6-8% of remainers have switched to leave iirc (a similar % have moved in the other direction so they cancel each other out, mind)

 

[chilango]

Missing poll option

 

[Idris2002]

Another referendum will settle nothing, because Britain's unwritten constitution has finally run out of road.

From here, you will have to proceed by foot.

 

[SpackleFrog]

how... how would you do it secretly? I don't think you could quietly cancel brexit and hope no-one noticed.

I didn't say secretly I said not openly!

Look, if I were a bourgeois politician and I wanted to stop Brexit, I wouldn't say 'Stop Brexit', I'd just try to make Brexit seem impossible/disastrous. Which is pretty much what the establishment have done. And then you don't have to say you want to cancel Brexit, just that you have to.

I'm not saying it won't cause a backlash but part of what politician do is calculate how much anger they can get away with isn't it?

 

[killer b]

But none of the people they need to convince it will be a disaster believe it'll be a disaster. They've done a real shit job of it if it's on purpose.