Should the fox hunting ban be lifted?

[Bahnhof Strasse]

eh?

if the UK government changes the law in England that has no effect whatsoever on the law in Scotland - if the propsed law in England is so bad why did the Scottish government (the SNP) do nothing to to change the exact same law in Scotland for the last 4 years?

You are wrong. You have lost. You have aligned yourself with the Countryside Alliance fella who is currently saying that this is a great step forward.

Baghdad is being bombed behind you, Nothing to see hear.

 

[weltweit]

Hmm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33520547
BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith said changes restricting Scottish MPs' voting rights on non-Scottish issues could now be introduced first.

 

[cesare]

The government probably only proposed it to see what the SNP would do ... foot in the water.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Hmm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33520547
BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith said changes restricting Scottish MPs' voting rights on non-Scottish issues could now be introduced first.

And by the time they've done that Scotland will have amended their act so Dave can't amend ours to be in line with theirs.

 

[zxspectrum]

You snack on meat? Most snacks are veggie. You must be huge. You don't actually need to snack at all. Just eat twice a day and you'll be fine.

I never said I snacked on meat. Some people can't just eat twice a day. Others can manage on even less. People are weird like that, I'm one of those weirdoes. Can't help that I'm afraid. That'w why I said it's metabolic.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The government probably only proposed it to see what the SNP would do ... foot in the water.

Would not credit them with that. The English votes for English laws thing was always coming, the SNP could only threaten to vote on English matters on a tiny number of issues, this being one.

 

[zxspectrum]

Which brings it back to the hypocrisy. If meat can't be produced an ethical fashion cheat enough to eat (and check out the price of free range organic chicken breast) then by continuing to eat it when we have other choices we are compliant in animal cruelty on a far higher scale then fox hunting.

To be fair, people that eat meat aren't directly responsible for how those animals are farmed. Those that hunt foxes are directly responsible for what heppens to a fox they catch.

 

[cesare]

Would not credit them with that. The English votes for English laws thing was always coming, the SNP could only threaten to vote on English matters on a tiny number of issues, this being one.

I don't underestimate them. The SNP have fucked them over and they need to establish how much by, before taking steps to neutralise them.

 

[weltweit]

Crazy idea, but it might just work!

While there is undoubtedly a vegetarian and related movement, and there are adherents to that view, I don't think any European nation has as a whole given up meat eating.

Why is that?

 

[zxspectrum]

On a vegetarian diet you can snack on all sorts of things: nuts, seeds, rice cakes, bagels, chocolate, veggie sticks, crisps, hummus, avocado (technically a fruit I know...), you might want to try calorie-dense, low acidic fruits like bananas and dried fruits. Loads of options really

I wasn't specifically referring to a particular type of fruit. It's the same regardless.

Lots of that kind of food is very expensive and hard to find. I have no idea what i would replace meat with. I'm not remotely opposed to vegetarianism, but i have to consider my dietary needs along with what I can reasonably find and afford. I'm also a pretty fussy eater when it comes to fruit and veg, I like what i like and the rest can go to hell

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I I'm also a pretty fussy eater

There you go.

 

[zxspectrum]

There you go.

there i go what?

 

[kebabking]

And by the time they've done that Scotland will have amended their act so Dave can't amend ours to be in line with theirs.

christ, you're being an idiot on this - the proposal has nothing to do with hunting, or bringing laws into line, its a call-out device to trap the SNP - and catch Labour with its head in its arse - into forcing the government into bringing forward the EVEL bill. the SNP - and Labour - have obliged. and now, oh look, the government is bringing forward the EVEL bill in its place, and with the 59 Scottish MP's out of the picture, the government will have a majority, not just for the fudge of using dogs to flush foxes, but to repeal the original bill entirely.

clap. clap. clap.

 

[weltweit]

If every meat eater in the UK (or Europe for that matter) were to stop eating meat, there would be no more cows, milkers, chickens, geese, ducks, pigs etc ..

They would cease to exist, farmland would be switched to growing vegetables or left fallow.

So rather than these farm animals having a perhaps less than ideal life, the vegetarian's argument has to be that it would be better if these animals just don't exist!

Can that be right?

 

[zxspectrum]

christ, you're being an idiot on this - the proposal has nothing to do with hunting, or bringing laws into line, its a call-out device to trap the SNP - and catch Labour with its head in its arse - into forcing the government into bringing forward the EVEL bill. the SNP - and Labour - have obliged. and now, oh look, the government is bringing forward the EVEL bill in its place, and with the 59 Scottish MP's out of the picture, the government will have a majority, not just for the fudge of using dogs to flush foxes, but to repeal the original bill entirely.

clap. clap. clap.

TGhen they were screwed either way, can't blame them for that.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

there i go what?

You're a fussy eater. Nothing to do with spurious ideas about having a different metabolism from other human beings.

 

[zxspectrum]

If every meat eater in the UK (or Europe for that matter) were to stop eating meat, there would be no more cows, milkers, chickens, geese, ducks, pigs etc ..

They would cease to exist, farmland would be switched to growing vegetables or left fallow.

So rather than these farm animals having a perhaps less than ideal life, the vegetarian's argument has to be that it would be better if these animals just don't exist!

Can that be right?

If they didn't exist to begin with there wouldn't be an issue and we wouldn't miss them. So, yes!

 

[zxspectrum]

You're a fussy eater. Nothing to do with spurious ideas about having a different metabolism from other human beings.

You've quoted me selectively. I said I was fussy in respect of fruit and veg. There's a lot I don't like. So what? I'm not a child and I can decide for myself what I eat. It isn't for you to pass judgement at all, and you've completely ignored what I said about feeling hungry. That has nothing to do with being particular about certain foods. Really you're being quite ignorant and I'd rather you stopped.

 

[nino_savatte]

So, the government realised it wasn't going to win the vote on hunting and has decided to change the rules to allow it (via EVEL). Fuck democracy, eh? Cunts.

 

[editor]

If every meat eater in the UK (or Europe for that matter) were to stop eating meat, there would be no more cows, milkers, chickens, geese, ducks, pigs etc ..

They would cease to exist, farmland would be switched to growing vegetables or left fallow.

So rather than these farm animals having a perhaps less than ideal life, the vegetarian's argument has to be that it would be better if these animals just don't exist!

Can that be right?

Given the extreme cruelty that many animals are born into, I'd rather have less animals living something close to normally (with the meat priced accordingly) than the current situation of super cheap meat created in disgusting conditions. How about you?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You've quoted me selectively. I said I was fussy in respect of fruit and veg. There's a lot I don't like. So what? I'm not a child and I can decide for myself what I eat. It isn't for you to pass judgement at all, and you've completely ignored what I said about feeling hungry. That has nothing to do with being particular about certain foods. Really you're being quite ignorant and I'd rather you stopped.

Ok, not going to get into a diagnosis via internet. But by your own admission, you're a dysfunctional eater and you have a dysfunctional sense of taste. I doubt the two are unrelated.

 

[editor]

While there is undoubtedly a vegetarian and related movement, and there are adherents to that view, I don't think any European nation has as a whole given up meat eating.

Why is that?

Lots of reasons I expect, but there's 400 million vegetarians in India who manage to get by OK.

 

[zxspectrum]

Ok, not going to get into a diagnosis via internet. But by your own admission, you're a dysfunctional eater and you have a dysfunctional sense of taste. I doubt the two are unrelated.

You're not going to get into a diagnosis, but you're going to make one anyway?

I've no idea what definiton of the word dysfunctional you are using. Are you seriously telling me that someone who doesn't like certain foods has a dysfunctional sense of taste because if you are then that word has lost all meaning since that would apply to everyone! I've never met anyone who likes everything ever.

I also don't know what dysfuynctional eating is, you make it sound as if i'm anorexic or something. That's nothing like it at all.

Not really sure where you are taking this conversation, quite honestly. I have a dodgy metabolism. There's no more a conscious element to that than if someone had diabetes (I don't). Would they be a dysfunctional eater?

 

[weltweit]

Given the extreme cruelty that many animals are born into, I'd rather have less animals living something close to normally (with the meat priced accordingly) than the current situation of super cheap meat created in disgusting conditions. How about you?

I would also be happy with that.

 

[weltweit]

Lots of reasons I expect, but there's 400 million vegetarians in India who manage to get by OK.

So even in India, meat eaters are still the vast majority.

 

[cesare]

So even in India, meat eaters are still the vast majority.

I wouldn't call 60% a vast majority.

 

[kebabking]

TGhen they were screwed either way, can't blame them for that.

no, thats not quite the case.

there is, in the tory parliamentary party, overwhelming support for some form of EVEL. however, there is within that a minority view that the govt should be both careful how its framed and seek a cross party - including the SNP - solution to EVEL. this minority groups view, which has adherents at the top end of the tory government, derives a great deal of its power/influence from the previous, but longstanding SNP position whereby the SNP did not vote in E/W matters that are devolved in Scotland.

now that position - a very principled view in my opinion - has been cast aside the minority, though powerful one, arguing for a much more considered concensus policy which takes into account the SG's concerns on a number of 'crossover' issues, has lost a great deal of its influence. the EVEL bill that goes through will therefore be a harsher, more black-and-white act which the SNP will like less than the one that might othewise have been achieved.

for nothing.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

To be fair, people that eat meat aren't directly responsible for how those animals are farmed. Those that hunt foxes are directly responsible for what heppens to a fox they catch.

If you know and continue to buy it then of course you are.

Regarding what you said about fruit, that's more then likely to be to with blood sugar levels if you wanted to read more.

 

[likesfish]

Zxspectrum you like eating meat and like the majority including me cant really be arsed to switich to a veggie diet the suprious argument about metabolism is just bollocks.

People eat meat because they are used to it its tasty and most get it nicely pre butchered and killed.

i could eat a veggie diet but dont through lazyness and not really being bothered about animal welfare, I m used to eating meat and like it.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

If every meat eater in the UK (or Europe for that matter) were to stop eating meat, there would be no more cows, milkers, chickens, geese, ducks, pigs etc ..

They would cease to exist, farmland would be switched to growing vegetables or left fallow.

So rather than these farm animals having a perhaps less than ideal life, the vegetarian's argument has to be that it would be better if these animals just don't exist!

Can that be right?

Of course they wouldn't cease to exist. People whould still keep them. I'd argue that a life of misery is not worth that life anyway.

Anyway I'm not suggesting people stop eating meat. I do fwiw. I'm suggesting that getting outraged about fox hunting whilst eating factory farmed meat is hypocrisy.