Should the fox hunting ban be lifted?
- Thread starter Orang Utan
- Start date
I don't disagree, but as ddraig has said, it's possible to care about more than one thing at a time.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I thought it was prisoners.
Anyway, that's clearly nonsense.
You don't think that fox hunting speaks to the attitude these people have - and not just about foxes? That they can tramp around the countryside with impunity - just as they tramp around society with impunity - killing whatever they like and getting a thrill out of it? Shouldn't that be challenged and strongly?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Farmers around where I grew up used to hate the hunt. They would just ignore any direction not to go over certain fields and charge around wherever they wanted. It's an exercise in power as much as anything, a 'we can do whatever the fuck we want' attitude.
As has probably already been said, there is lots of opposition to the hunts in rural areas. It's balls that 'country folk' all support it.
As has probably already been said, there is lots of opposition to the hunts in rural areas. It's balls that 'country folk' all support it.
mr steev
magic thought wizard
I suppose many people see eating meat as necessary, whereas you'd be hard pushed to argue that hunting with hounds is.
There is also all the other cruelty that goes with hunting, it's not just a chase and a quick kill. As I mentioned earlier, the way that surplus hounds are dealt with, trapping and bagging foxes, sending terriers into sets when the fox has gone to ground etc... all just for 'fun'
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
The " 'ooray 'enries" that ride to hounds around here are just like that. To keep them out of my patch is a nightmare, despite sending them a "warning off" letter. A couple or three years ago, during autumn (cub) hunting they tried to dig out my fox refuge and damaged a gate and several yards of drystone wall. So glad I had a pick and axe to hand, as I was about to fetch out a dead tree stump. Cue a lot of shouting (more like swearing) and the hosepipe. Finally got the police to shift them, the support were blocking the road at a junction - an accident blackspot - and a near miss with a timber waggon helped.
I eat meat, i oppose fox hunting.
Slaughtering for meat is not the same at all. One is seen as a sport, the other is the process by which we feed ourselves. It's not perfect but hopefully it is done professionally and with respect to the animals involved, to minimise suffering and let them live as decent a life as possible. I have no moral issue with meat eating personally at all, though modern farming methods may be questionable.
Fox hunting on the other hand provides no benefits and exists solely for the amusement of inbred horse fuckers
Slaughtering for meat is not the same at all. One is seen as a sport, the other is the process by which we feed ourselves. It's not perfect but hopefully it is done professionally and with respect to the animals involved, to minimise suffering and let them live as decent a life as possible. I have no moral issue with meat eating personally at all, though modern farming methods may be questionable.
Fox hunting on the other hand provides no benefits and exists solely for the amusement of inbred horse fuckers
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
What they're doing to US should be. I'm not so fussed about them doing it to the foxes too.
i think you may have missed my point.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
No, I'm just twisting it to suit my own agenda
I had the horrid misfortune to come across some piece of shit killing a crow on the edge of our wood - all dressed up in camouflage and probably getting a hard-on as he held the crow by its wing and kicked it in the head.
It is fair to say that I have been conflicted about cruelty to animals, having run coursing dogs on hare (which they rarely catch and on the rare occasions when they do, the kill was swift and made for tasty dinners for a single parent with a shit income)...and I have failed to manage more than 2 meat-free days a week. All-in all, though, the whole hunting thing is anachronistic and exclusionary, threaded through with some ruthless attitudes towards animals as products - the absurd value of pheasants and the savage killing of hawks to protect this insane class-riddled reactionary garbage.
I find I am on very good terms with the cock pheasant nesting near my horsebox and am finding, almost against my will, a changing attitude towards wildlife and our relationships towards it. Moreoever, I am finding the symbolic meaning of the hunt has nothing of the heroic, noble, atavistic primal thrill and all that other shit, including the well-worn meme of ignorant townies and conservation (of privilege), and is rather more redolent of just another mean cruelty against the powerless.
It is fair to say that I have been conflicted about cruelty to animals, having run coursing dogs on hare (which they rarely catch and on the rare occasions when they do, the kill was swift and made for tasty dinners for a single parent with a shit income)...and I have failed to manage more than 2 meat-free days a week. All-in all, though, the whole hunting thing is anachronistic and exclusionary, threaded through with some ruthless attitudes towards animals as products - the absurd value of pheasants and the savage killing of hawks to protect this insane class-riddled reactionary garbage.
I find I am on very good terms with the cock pheasant nesting near my horsebox and am finding, almost against my will, a changing attitude towards wildlife and our relationships towards it. Moreoever, I am finding the symbolic meaning of the hunt has nothing of the heroic, noble, atavistic primal thrill and all that other shit, including the well-worn meme of ignorant townies and conservation (of privilege), and is rather more redolent of just another mean cruelty against the powerless.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
The problem with appealing to 'benefits' is that its incredibly subjective. The hunters may get just as much enjoyment from the thrill of the hunt as somebody does from eating steak. Neither are necessary and both are, in the final analysis, just different ways that humans seek pleasure.
One reason for opposing hunting might be that it involves inflicting death and suffering for fun, and that seems objectionable. It certainly doesn't reflect well on the characters of the hunters. However, it's surely the suffering and death that's the really bad thing, when you think about it from the fox's perspective. Imagine you were going to be tortured. Does it matter to you whether the torturer is a sadist or trying to extract information from you? I think the wrongness of the act (assuming its the same physical act) would be the same in both, even with the different motivations.
The other objection might be related to welfare. But the reality is that the lives of most 'farm' animals are far worse than those of wild foxes and so-called 'humane' meat is largely irrelevant to most people's consumption habits. What really makes fox hunting different from eating chicken in Nando's is that one is generally socially disapproved and the other isn't, I don't think there's any deeper principle involved.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
AFAICT they aren't proposing to do away with the bill rather they are planning an amendment which will permit more than 2 hounds to flush out foxes to guns. But this will be a relaxation of the law and in many cases the hounds will get the fox before the guns can shoot it, or perhaps because the hounds are on the fox the guns won't shoot it, either way the fox gets ripped apart by the hounds, one of the key things that the original ban was supposed to stop.
I can quite understand that some people like to charge around the countryside on horses and can understand that such a pastime could be enjoyable. But it is not necessary to tear a small animal apart in the name of sport. And that doesn't mention the other cruel activities hunts get up to in the name of sport, blocking up sets, cubbing, etc etc ..
Hunting with hounds has been banned widely across continental Europe, it is cruel and entirely unnecessary, the ban should remain or even be made harsher in my opinion.
I can quite understand that some people like to charge around the countryside on horses and can understand that such a pastime could be enjoyable. But it is not necessary to tear a small animal apart in the name of sport. And that doesn't mention the other cruel activities hunts get up to in the name of sport, blocking up sets, cubbing, etc etc ..
Hunting with hounds has been banned widely across continental Europe, it is cruel and entirely unnecessary, the ban should remain or even be made harsher in my opinion.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Also that one is an activity perceived to be engaged in primarily by "toffs". Many posters here have admitted on past hunting threads that their motivation against hunting is a class issue and bugger-all to do with fox welfare.
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stethoscope
Well-Known Member
weltweit
Well-Known Member
However Hare coursing, a much more working class activity, was also made illegal by the same bill.
youngian
Well-Known Member
They're doing the right thing, they would have been a laughing stock among their constituents if they abstained for ideological nationalist reasons. Fun though it would have been trolling angry CyberNats with #tartantory hashtags.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
and yet now they look ridiculous for opposing a law in England that would bring England into line with Scotland.
no doubt hugely amusing for them in the short term, and a gift to labour - who, on the EVEL issue have the political nous of uncooked chicken - but its a fools trick that will only ensure that Camerons' version of EVEL, that the SNP have some legitimate issues with, will pass with flying colours.
foot, apply shotgun, wonder why limping.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I support the ban on fox hunting mostly as a it annoys people that hunt, although foxes are cute.
However nobody needs to eat meat, especially the mass produced type that is all most people who eat meat daily can afford to eat.
These animals have an appalling life, followed by a shit death. The fox has it better.
However nobody needs to eat meat, especially the mass produced type that is all most people who eat meat daily can afford to eat.
These animals have an appalling life, followed by a shit death. The fox has it better.
While the meat industry is certainly full of exploitation and misery - but it's not a sport.
If nothing else that principle alone is enough to warrant its ban.
I'm sure plenty of fox hunters do enjoy what they do - they wouldnt' do it otherwise. They've also made a complete ass of the law by flouting it successfully, which feeds into their arguments against the ban. So for these reasons we need effective and enforced legislation. I don't think it can be right that society can endorse inflicting pain on living creatures for entertainment and if those involved are so culturally inured they actually enjoy it that's all the more reason to need legislation.
Not all meat is produced that way. I don't think you can compare the two. I don't like the mass production line approach but it's still not about entertainment. That's the difference.
I couldn't be a vegetarian. I haven't the metabolism for it, nor in fact the money or the shops!
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Seeing as the Scots are moving to amend their own bill to reduce the number of dogs allowed, they are doing the English a favour, as Dave's ONLY motivation for doing this is to bring English law in line with Scottish law, he'd have to go an amend it again in a few months time.
Next week he'll be introducing free university education for all English students too.
Big fan of Scotch law is Dave. Big fan.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
absolutely, but that is entirely within the power of, and a matter solely for, the Scottish parliament. oddly, in all the time the SNP have had a majority in the Scottish parliament, they've not considered this issue in need of attention.
if hunting in Scotland is a matter purely for the Scottish parliament, then hunting in England has nothing to do with Scotland. of course, if the overwhelming majority of Scottish MP's disagree with the central tenets of devolution and subsidiarity...
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
And that's a bad thing?
For me the motivation is similar to what it is on many other subjects; if the people defending their position can not do so whilst looking you firmly in the eye, then they are wrong and should be opposed.
Hunt supporters are forever banging on about the slaughter the fox commits and how hunting is the way to stop that. This is patent nonsense, ergo they are ashamed of their true motivations for hunting, therefore, fuck 'em.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
I agree that the hunting ban should be strengthened, but I object to the hypocrisy of those that oppose practices of animal cruelty whilst consuming products of death and torture three times a day. Like I said, the difference between hunters enjoying causing suffering and death and meat-eaters enjoying the benefits of suffering and death is the same as the difference between a torturer torturing for sadistic reasons and a torturer torturing in order to extract a confession. It's the torture that's what is primarily bad, not the motivation for the torture.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Chickens, cows, pigs and geese are not chased across the countryside by a pack of hounds for hours until they are totally exhausted before being ripped limb from limb.
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