Should the fox hunting ban be lifted?

[Spymaster]

While the meat industry is certainly full of exploitation and misery - but it's not a sport.

Why is it ok to cause animals pain and suffering for food but not for sport?

One is for unnecessary culinary purposes, the other for unnecessary leisure purposes.

I don't think it can be right that society can endorse inflicting pain on living creatures for entertainment and if those involved are so culturally inured they actually enjoy it that's all the more reason to need legislation

Swap culturally for culinary above, and you've put forward an argument for legislating against meat.

 

[Spymaster]

And that's a bad thing?


For me the motivation is similar to what it is on many other subjects; if the people defending their position can not do so whilst looking you firmly in the eye, then they are wrong and should be opposed.

Hunt supporters are forever banging on about the slaughter the fox commits and how hunting is the way to stop that. This is patent nonsense, ergo they are ashamed of their true motivations for hunting, therefore, fuck 'em.

There'll be loads of hunters who'll quite happily tell you that they do it for the sport and couldn't give a toss about fox control. They just don't make good PR so you don't get to see them.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Not all meat is produced that way. I don't think you can compare the two. I don't like the mass production line approach but it's still not about entertainment. That's the difference.

I couldn't be a vegetarian. I haven't the metabolism for it, nor in fact the money or the shops!

You havnt got the metabolism?

Last time I checked veg was cheaper then meat. Especially meat that hasnt been factory farmed. Eating meat is a form of entertainment when you have other options that are arguably better for you and the planet.

 

[Orang Utan]

I couldn't be a vegetarian. I haven't the metabolism for it, nor in fact the money or the shops!

What a load of bollocks.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Chickens, cows, pigs and geese are not chased across the countryside by a pack of hounds for hours until they are totally exhausted before being ripped limb from limb.

Yes, but they are bred, separated, mutilated, confined, fattened up, transported and slaughtered in ways that cause huge, unimaginable levels of suffering. We all know this, you all know deep down when we tuck into a bacon butty in a cafe that the pig almost definitely lived a horrible existence, and unlike the fox didn't ever grow up in its natural environment or have even a remote chance of escaping with its life.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

There'll be loads of hunters who'll quite happily tell you that they do it for the sport and couldn't give a toss about fox control. They just don't make good PR so you don't get to see them.

Why does it not make good PR?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There'll be loads of hunters who'll quite happily tell you that they do it for the sport and couldn't give a toss about fox control. They just don't make good PR so you don't get to see them.

'The Hunt' is not and never was anything to do with fox control.

 

[likesfish]

Also that one is an activity perceived to be engaged in primarily by "toffs". Many posters here have admitted on past hunting threads that their motivation against hunting is a class issue and bugger-all to do with fox welfare.

What exactly is wrong with that the upper classes have and still do think they are better than us and have a god given right to privlages, pissing on their chips is .

Once involved in gassing the royal artillery hunt on the plain stupid bastards could see me and a few hundred others in NBC kit and clouds of cs gas completely ignored the frantic waving of several people and rode full tilt into to the clouds wont be doing that again in a hurry

 

[zxspectrum]

What a load of bollocks.

why?

 

[zxspectrum]

You havnt got the metabolism?

Last time I checked veg was cheaper then meat. Especially meat that hasnt been factory farmed. Eating meat is a form of entertainment when you have other options that are arguably better for you and the planet.

i can't snack on fruit for instance, if i eat an apple or orange when I'm hungry, say mid afternoon, it will make me even more hungry and i will feel faint. I don't know why, doctors don't know why, but that's just how it is. So i eat fruit after a meal. I eat meat because it's filling. I'm not against vegeterianism whatsoever but where i live there's no decent grocers, just a crappy convenience store that sells very dear produce - where it sells any. Everything else is frozen meals and tinned muck or ginsters pasties and the like. I buy meat from a butcher (not especially cheap either I might add). That's just how it is. Not really on topic either. I'm happy to have this discussion, but this probably isn't the place.

 

[StoneRoad]

Hactuaaaally, last time I checked I came to the conclusion that the human dentition and digestive system seems to adapted best to an omnivorous diet.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Hactuaaaally, last time I checked I came to the conclusion that the human dentition and digestive system seems to adapted best to an omnivorous diet.

Oh god not this again. We're flexible omnivores, able to thrive on a wide range of diets, hence our worldwide success.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

i can't snack on fruit for instance, if i eat an apple or orange when I'm hungry, say mid afternoon, it will make me even more hungry and i will feel faint.

On a vegetarian diet you can snack on all sorts of things: nuts, seeds, rice cakes, bagels, chocolate, veggie sticks, crisps, hummus, avocado (technically a fruit I know...), you might want to try calorie-dense, low acidic fruits like bananas and dried fruits. Loads of options really

 

[weltweit]

Yes, but they are bred, separated, mutilated, confined, fattened up, transported and slaughtered in ways that cause huge, unimaginable levels of suffering. We all know this, you all know deep down when we tuck into a bacon butty in a cafe that the pig almost definitely lived a horrible existence, and unlike the fox didn't ever grow up in its natural environment or have even a remote chance of escaping with its life.

There are specific rearing methods that are less than ideal yes, veal, battery chicken spring immediately to mind, I would be happy for there to be more restrictions or bans on these but the reason some farmers are using such methods is to provide cheap meat, for the consumer, something more humane methods can't do.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

There are specific rearing methods that are less than ideal yes, veal, battery chicken spring immediately to mind, I would be happy for there to be more restrictions or bans on these but the reason some farmers are using such methods is to provide cheap meat, for the consumer, something more humane methods can't do.

So you could just not eat animals at all.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

There are specific rearing methods that are less than ideal yes, veal, battery chicken spring immediately to mind, I would be happy for there to be more restrictions or bans on these but the reason some farmers are using such methods is to provide cheap meat, for the consumer, something more humane methods can't do.

Which brings it back to the hypocrisy. If meat can't be produced an ethical fashion cheat enough to eat (and check out the price of free range organic chicken breast) then by continuing to eat it when we have other choices we are compliant in animal cruelty on a far higher scale then fox hunting.

 

[kebabking]

...Wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33516713

err... right.

the SNP totally oppose fox hunting right up to the point where they have done nothing in the last 4 years - where they have been in government in Scotland - to actually change the law in Scotland to make it illegal, but you continue with your delusions.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

err... right.

the SNP totally oppose fox hunting right up to the point where they have done nothing in the last 4 years - where they have been in government in Scotland - to actually change the law in Scotland to make it illegal, but you continue with your delusions.

And they are doing something now.

Is that a fact or a delusion?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Take your time.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Whenever you're ready.

 

[kebabking]

And they are doing something now.

Is that a fact or a delusion?

its a fact now - they claim - so what stopped them doing something they claim is so important for the last 5 years?

 

[weltweit]

So you could just not eat animals at all.

I am an omnivore, meat and dairy make up parts of my diet. And I have worked on farms, including helping with slaughtering, were it not for consumer's demand for meat, farm animals would just not exist at all.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

its a fact now - they claim - so what stopped them doing something they claim is so important for the last 5 years?

They had no need in the past five years.

They have need now.

What sort of politics would you prefer? One that dogmatically sticks to a position in the face of evidence that the position is wrong, or one that is big enough to accept that it should change its stated position?

 

[weltweit]

Which brings it back to the hypocrisy. If meat can't be produced an ethical fashion cheat enough to eat (and check out the price of free range organic chicken breast) then by continuing to eat it when we have other choices we are compliant in animal cruelty on a far higher scale then fox hunting.

Does not mean that fox hunting should not be banned.
Rather that we could attend to food rearing in a better way.
I am in favour of better food rearing, I don't like battery chicken and don't buy it, not veal which is banned here though not in the EU.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Government to withdraw the vote on foxhunting

 

[kebabking]

They had no need in the past five years.

They have need now....

eh?

if the UK government changes the law in England that has no effect whatsoever on the law in Scotland - if the propsed law in England is so bad why did the Scottish government (the SNP) do nothing to to change the exact same law in Scotland for the last 4 years?

 

[Orang Utan]

why?

You have got the metabolism and if you have a supermarket nearby, or even just a greengrocer, then you have shops. And veg is cheaper than meat.

 

[editor]

So you could just not eat animals at all.

Crazy idea, but it might just work!

 

[Orang Utan]

i can't snack on fruit for instance, if i eat an apple or orange when I'm hungry, say mid afternoon, it will make me even more hungry and i will feel faint. I don't know why, doctors don't know why, but that's just how it is. So i eat fruit after a meal. I eat meat because it's filling. I'm not against vegeterianism whatsoever but where i live there's no decent grocers, just a crappy convenience store that sells very dear produce - where it sells any. Everything else is frozen meals and tinned muck or ginsters pasties and the like. I buy meat from a butcher (not especially cheap either I might add). That's just how it is. Not really on topic either. I'm happy to have this discussion, but this probably isn't the place.

You snack on meat? Most snacks are veggie. You must be huge. You don't actually need to snack at all. Just eat twice a day and you'll be fine.

 

[weltweit]

According to Sky News, the government has decided not to hold the vote because they think they would lose it.

Plans To Change Fox Hunting Rules Pulled
http://news.sky.com/story/1518602/plans-to-change-fox-hunting-rules-pulled