Midwife...
Should men describe themselves as feminists, if they are supportive of feminism?
- Thread starter Orang Utan
- Start date
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
I had a male community midwife examine me during my third pregnancy. Try again.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
bullshit
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
and don't say nanny
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Open to men.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Wrong. Open to men.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
oh i missed this on the other page. wrong again.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
What are you going for next Vincent? Primary school teacher? Nurse? Cleaner?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
The Prime Minister Of The United Kingdom from 1979-1990?
Thora
Differently Ethical
IME men in traditionally female jobs - like nannying, nurseries, primary schools - are welcomed and celebrated. There are agencies specialising in providing male nannies, they often get paid more in London. Being male and working in early years in nursery or primary is a big selling point. Society generally thinks they are doing a brilliant job and bringing a much needed male influence.
I've decided. Shut up.
done
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
This is a magnification of how single mums are treated as the root of all evil in the press and by government, whereas single dads are venerated as heroes. See also 'men 'babysitting' their own kids on a Saturday, 'isn't he good?' etc.
Thora
Differently Ethical
And dads that do the school run - "he's so involved"
Aye, when I was in support work I was offered other jobs because it would be good to have a man around, great to see a bloke doing this sort of thing and other such bollocks. I never took them because they sounded harder work than the cushy number I had.
kittyP
Pluviophile
Ok. Ok.
Firstly, I don't personally think you are a "bad person" Johnny. I also don't think you are stupid.
That is what makes it so much more frustrating.
There are people on here that piss me off with their opinions but I find them easy to ignore because they are either such insultingly obvious trolls or idiots or just nasty people.
But despite you (imvho) being an actually ok kinda guy, you keep returning to the same kind of threads and saying the same offensive things.
The point, at the end of the day is, no matter what you believe to be true/the case at hand, if you don't want to be a cunt, don't tell a load of women that they are wrong on issues of feminism.
It is not your place to do so.
I might occasionally disagree with a black person on an issue about racism, but it is not my place to tell them "Sorry sir/madam, you are wrong".
I sit back and listen and try to understand what they are saying, regardless.
Nobody is telling you (or me) that we have to agree with people we disagree with, but there is a massive difference between, and a lot to be explored between, disingenuously agreeing with someone, and outright telling them they are wrong when the power balance lies in your favour and you cannot know what it is to experience that world.
You may well know women with opinions that back up your points but that proves nothing.
I know plenty of women with very unfeministic (is that a word) points of view, women who are feminists who I agree with and everything in-between.
I also get your point about humour and (especially in work) it often being the only thing that gets you through the day.
But it's time and place and set and setting.
I will go out on a limb here and say that I might be inclined to say certain things and make certain jokes in real life, at home or with a certain group of friends because I know it will be taken in the feeling that it is intended but outside that, might be, and quite understandably taken badly.
It's not a race or gender thing but that the issue of "wrong humour" which I am sometimes a fan of (it depends*) has its place and it is often not here.
You are entitled to be amused by whatever you choose or believe whatever you choose, but if you say those things on a public forum and get shot down because of how you are going about it, maybe have a think about what you are saying and how you are saying it, and obviously a longer and harder think than you have been to date.
Sorry, long ramble quoting old-ish post over
*For instance I am a huge Doug Stanhope fan but I know people that I like who HATE his humour and I actually understand why.
We just have a difference of opinion.
But I don't go around quoting stuff of his at them because that would be at the very least rude and mostly mean and unfair.
I agree to disagree and leave it there.
I don't tell them about all the people I know that also love his stand up and get it the way I do and that they are wrong for not liking it.
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Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
I won't argue with someone else's personal experience, but I see no issue with arguing more abstractly about, particularly, why things happen. What happens with one gender necessarily affects what happens with the other and has wider societal implications. Also feminism often seems to reach its own conclusions about men, how men experience life and how men should be treated - as a man, I feel perfectly entitled to argue over these points too.
You know, I actually had to explain to a young female colleague the other day that why, when it comes to selecting stuff for babies, it's no longer all pink for girls and blue for boys... I'm not at war with the pink for girls & blue for boys brigade, necessarily - it just amazed me that someone wasn't aware this is an issue.Oh, Johnny.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
It's not as bad as it sounds.
It was in the context of a light-hearted office discussion about my male colleague finding out he's pregnant (
) and whether they were going to find out the sex up front, etc. If I hadn't told her, I have a feeling one of my female colleagues might have anyway. But, seriously, lots of young(ish) people, male and female, aren't switched on to these issues at all. What if I'd had the same conversation with a male colleague who was unaware of the issue? I don't see the difference.You never do.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
jonny seeing process over structural yet again.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Can I mumsplain to you for a moment here, Johnny? You'd be amazed. It is seriously fucking hard to avoid the all pink for girls and blue for boys when it comes to buying baby clothes. Once they get past newborn size (where it's easy enough to get generic non-gendered stuff) EVERYTHING is either pink/purple/with stupid lacy frilly bits or blue/brown/orange if you're lucky with trucks/dinosaurs and/or annoying gender stereotype phrases like 'I'm a little monster' for boys' clothes and 'I'm a little princess' for girls. Really. Until they get to like 9 or 10 it's ALL like that. It's quite hard to fight against when that's all that's available.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
I know. I do have young nephews. I'm aware of the issues surrounding this sort of thing, but while people seemingly happily buy such clothes not much is going to change...
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
What are we to clothe our children in while we wait for things to change? They grow fast, you know.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Only semi-serious - but if you really wanted to fight gender roles, why couldn't you buy a 'boys' 'little monster' jumper for your little girl?
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
You could. But it would still be shit. I don't like any of those slogany t-shirts because they're not little monsters, they're just kids, aren't they? Also tbh I've done that sort of thing with my eldest, and everyone thought she was a boy. She didn't have much hair til she was two. She began to get pissed off with strangers in the street talking to her as if she was a boy and started choosing the 'girly' stuff. She went through an extreme pink and girly phase aged about 4-6 while she worked it all out in her head and now she's back to wearing 'boys' trainers because frankly they get a lot more choice.
Thora
Differently Ethical
How does dressing a little girl in "boys" clothes fight gender roles? Anyway, it already is pretty acceptable for girls to be dressed in nice, sensible boys' clothes. I wonder why no one picks sparkly, half open, heeled shoes for their boys?
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