Should men describe themselves as feminists, if they are supportive of feminism?

[Red Cat]

Yes, but I want more. If a big part of the answer to getting rid of male domination is socialism (or anarchy or liberalism) like has been suggested on this thread, then I want to know how. I want to know what that looks like and how it would work to solve the very problems that she so eloquently puts. I want answers!

I don't know. I have a partial analysis of why things are as they are but I don't have an answer. I think that answers come from what we do, that people change in struggle, discover parts of themselves they hadn't previously acknowledged, that change, revolutionary change can happen when it isn't expected. I have an idea about what is probably a better way of living that is very far from the way we live now but I'm not politically active at all atm because I don't know what to do.

 

[DotCommunist]

communist, anarcho, feminist- I don't care Le Guin is for her craft alone one of the true greats of our time in her field.

The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas is a very short piece but so so good. Not on topic maybe, but it talks about how we do and why. Horrible and moving.

. I cannot describe it at all. It is possible that it does not exist. But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

 

[Santino]

 

[Jezebelle]

But really the word does only mean that you support equality, so why can't a man use it of himself?

Except it doesn't only mean you support equality. It's important to recognise the different types of feminism, especially if you're going to call yourself a feminist. Equality feminism is the most well-known, popular and influential, but it's only one kind.

 

[Orang Utan]

Except it doesn't only mean you support equality. It's important to recognise the different types of feminism, especially if you're going to call yourself a feminist. Equality feminism is the most well-known, popular and influential, but it's only one kind.

what other kinds? are there feminisms that don't support equality?

 

[Jezebelle]

This really is the long and short of it.

There's a lot of hand-wringing about what feminism means these days (well, hasn't there always been?), with different groups holding different views with different goals, and in turn endless diatribes about wanting a different word, people saying "I'm not a feminist, I love men!", or wankers saying "I'm an equalist!!!"

You can have your discussions about what 'equal rights' means under a capitalist system, about whether there can ever be gender equality under capitalism; you can have your arguments with TERF cunts about what even constitutes a woman: but outside all of that, if you don't think gender should be a barrier to being granted rights and justice and fairness and whatever else, well that's feminism.

Dictionaries aren't great at explaining political theories or movements anyway, but if feminism is limited to "equality between the sexes", how come David Cameron refuses to describe himself as a feminist? Under that definition, he is one. Feminism means much more than that to me. What exactly has 'equal rights' and legislation achieved for women? It certainly hasn't liberated our lives. Radical feminists receive the harshest criticism and yet, they're the only ones calling for women to be made truly free. This doesn't mean radical feminists believe men are free; many recognise that 'equality feminism' has, in fact, not only given us many of the same restrictions imposed on men; it's also completely failed to remove most of our existing ones. So now we're expected to be independent, go out to work and still come home to do all or most of the child care, cooking, cleaning etc. And we'll still be called bitches, whores, cunts and so on if we try to assert our supposed new freedoms.

 

[Orang Utan]

Dictionaries aren't great at explaining political theories or movements anyway, but if feminism is limited to "equality between the sexes", how come David Cameron refuses to describe himself as a feminist? Under that definition, he is one.

He doesn't use that definition, clearly. He subscribes to the popular chauvinist view of feminists

 

[Jezebelle]

what other kinds? are there feminisms that don't support equality?

My other post hopefully explained the difference between equality feminism and radical feminism. One aims for equality (in terms of equal pay, equal rights, treating men and women exactly the same); the other isn't against all those things, it just doesn't see them as the answer. Other types of feminism (such as Socialist or Marxist, Black, Eco, post-modern) all emphasise different problems and different solutions.

 

[Jezebelle]

He doesn't use that definition, clearly. He subscribes to the popular chauvinist view of feminists

Which is what? Do you mean the one that sees them all as radicals and doesn't want to be associated with them?

 

[Orang Utan]

Which is what? Do you mean the one that sees them all as radicals and doesn't want to be associated with them?

that feminists are all fun-hating humourless anti-banter feminazis. Remember his 'calm down dear' to Angela Eagle in a Commons debate?

 

[Jezebelle]

So even though he passionately believes in equality between men and women, we're still left with the sexism.

 

[DotCommunist]

David Cameron passionatley believes in a few things

)himself
)god
)the tory party
)the monarchy
)money
)his overarching hatred of the poor

equality doesn't come into his politics. You don't become leader of the conservative party by believing in equality.

 

[Orang Utan]

So even though he passionately believes in equality between men and women, we're still left with the sexism.

he doesn't - he's a tory PM!

 

[Jezebelle]

Isn't it odd that a way to challenge the structural imperative to produce sexism (bodies and labour) is just cast aside in we're all feminists now?

You fucking knobhead fez.

Do you hate being nasty to women, well so do i, smashing - all is good.

Liked only for the first sentence. We're all feminists now because equality feminism largely ignores bodies and only sees labour as the workplace.

 

[butchersapron]

Liked only for the first sentence. We're all feminists now because equality feminism largely ignores bodies and only sees labour as the workplace.

Yeah, my earlier posts were a bit of a mess to be fair, that's why i bowed out of the discussion for a while - for those silly extra lines that weren't needed - and they were very late night saturday posts. Can't remember if i apologised to fez but we've talked directly since then so...

 

[Jezebelle]

David Cameron passionatley believes in a few things

)himself
)god
)the tory party
)the monarchy
)money
)his overarching hatred of the poor

equality doesn't come into his politics. You don't become leader of the conservative party by believing in equality.

I'm not talking here about economic equality. He's 'new tory' and supports the idea of equality where it helps and/or doesn't pose a threat to neo-liberalism. What about equal marriage? I heard Ed Milliband describe it as Cameron's greatest achievement.

 

[DotCommunist]

I'm not talking here about economic equality. He's 'new tory' and supports the idea of equality where it helps and/or doesn't pose a threat to neo-liberalism. What about equal marriage? I heard Ed Milliband describe it as Cameron's greatest achievement.

he was doing that to wind cameron up and remind his base that the bloke presided over the horror of gay marriage. It made me chuckle a lot because whatever his other failings, it reminded me that miliband is not above a sly dig