Shots fired outside Houses of Parliament

[Magnus McGinty]

You imagine but have no idea...so just willfully hoping that coded messages actually saved anyone's lives in an attempt to what? Justify/Build a hierarchy of good and bad 'terrorists'? Odd.

So you just lump them all in the same pot? That's odd.

 

[Treacle Toes]

So you just lump them all in the same pot? That's odd.

No...there is no fucking pot is the point. Nor is there a hierarchy. There is context and stupid comparisons like yours are well, stupid.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

No...there is no fucking pot is the point. Nor is there a hierarchy. There is context and stupid comparisons like yours are well, stupid.

In what way was it stupid?

 

[Beats & Pieces]

Librarians - the new "Mr Bigs" of terrorism

Well, have you ever returned a book late?! All that power...

 

[phillm]

They kept shooting squadies till the end. One of the main differences was the scale of the groups. The provos were embedded into a community so could pick from among the best to act as intelligence and for bomb making. They had a structure and organisation to plan political objectives and how to use their willingness to violence to achieve those goals.

McVeigh showed that a talented and motivated clique of individuals could achieve some of that but it was very fragile and collapsed with one or two arrests. It is my opinion (your mileage may vary) the violent jihadis are very weakly embedded into their communities, they have to be very surreptitious about plans and recruitment, they are very disjointed here in the UK. They cannot cultivate individuals with the skills of field craft, intelligence gathering and bomb making let alone build an infrastructure to support political goal setting and planning how to execute atrocities to achieve such goals.

They do not have the network of thinkers and doers to pull together a coherent campaign. It looks to me like individuals who are inspired by other acts of atrocity violence in Europe seeking a rationalisation to justify the "glory" of "jihad" by atrocity violence. The result is theologically and politically nihilistic, it is individuals emotionally and mentally disconnected enough from society to imagine a glorious suicide as an end in itself occasionally whipping themselves into enough of a fervour to "do something".

tl;dnr, lonely wack jobs not a community engaged in a struggle.

beautifully satirised by Chris Morris in Four Lions.

 

[Beats & Pieces]

You imagine but have no idea...so just willfully hoping that coded messages actually saved anyone's lives in an attempt to what? Justify/Build a hierarchy of good and bad 'terrorists'? Odd.

No, arguably maintain the point of an action being political as opposed to being an act of simple murder. The key point being the interpretation and implementation of the words 'terrorism' and 'terrorist'.

 

[Treacle Toes]

In what way was it stupid?

A warning didn't save those that died. Therefore your hierarchy building doesn't work unless you are saying that some 'innocent' people deserved to die or their murders are more palatable/understandable because x, y, z.

 

[Beats & Pieces]

A warning didn't save those that died. Therefore your hierarchy building doesn't work unless you are saying that some 'innocent' people deserved to die more because x, y, z.

No, certainly not. I don't think it is/was about a hierarchy, more a distinction of the operational intention. If there is a war then, within such a logic, there are 'acceptable' casualties, and it can then be a space fr argumentation in respect of blame etc.

Please don't think I'm looking to justify - perhaps understand or explain.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

A warning didn't save those that died. Therefore your hierarchy building doesn't work unless you are saying that some 'innocent' people deserved to die more because x, y, z.

But this is a straw man as I made no such claim. The warnings were given to reduce civilian casualties. Unless you have a different theory as to why they were given?

 

[Pickman's model]

No, certainly not. I don't think it is/was about a hierarchy, more a distinction of the operational intention. If there is a war then, within such a logic, there are 'acceptable' casualties, and it can then be a space fr argumentation in respect of blame etc.

Please don't think I'm looking to justify - perhaps understand or explain.

Pointy head wank, "a distinction of the operational intention" blah blah. Never heard such vacuous tosh in all my born days.

 

[Treacle Toes]

But this is a straw man as I made no such claim. The warnings were given to reduce civilian casualties. Unless you have a different theory as to why they were given?

Not a straw man because the warnings didn't save the lives of those who died. One life is enough is it not?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Anyway...that's my point and I am not in any way legitimising anyone's political or religious beliefs that lead them to kill. I just fucking abhor even the sniff of double standards...I smell that shit a mile off.


Which also presents a existential/theoretical dilemma for me...come the 'revolution' when urban routinely will use the idea of putting others up against the wall for x, y or z reason... who will be pulling the 'trigger'? I have certainly met or come across a few that left me imagining I could/would.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Not a straw man because the warnings didn't save the lives of those who died. One life is enough is it not?

Well yes, but War tends to kill people. Avoiding civilians as best as possible isn't really comparable to deliberately mowing tourists down.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Well yes, but War tends to kill people. Avoiding civilians as best as possible isn't really comparable to deliberately mowing tourists down.

War....you'll need to define that in a way the encapsulates 'everyones' definition and methods of fighting one I think.

 

[Athos]

War....you'll need to define that in a way the encapsulates 'everyones' definition and methods of fighting one I think.

What definition do you prefer? Why? And whose interests does it serve?

 

[Shechemite]

Pointy head wank, "a distinction of the operational intention" blah blah. Never heard such vacuous tosh in all my born days.

I thought you worked with uni students?

 

[Treacle Toes]

I thought you worked with uni students?

Yeah my reading/gut grip of that poster is student too.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

War....you'll need to define that in a way the encapsulates 'everyones' definition and methods of fighting one I think.

What's a civil war?

 

[Pickman's model]

I thought you worked with uni students?

And?

 

[Shechemite]

Yeah my reading/gut grip of that poster is student too.

Making a different point/joke. But fair enough

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah my reading/gut grip of that poster is student too.

Mine is pretentious pointy head race baiting wanker

 

[Shechemite]

And?

Undergrads talk a lot of wank. Although BeattieP does strive for the wankiest of wank

 

[Treacle Toes]

Mine is pretentious pointy head race baiting wanker

Enjoy your privilege!

 

[Athos]

A warning didn't save those that died. Therefore your hierarchy building doesn't work unless you are saying that some 'innocent' people deserved to die or their murders are more palatable/understandable because x, y, z.

Of course the deaths of some innocent people are more palatable than others. For instance, it would be more palatable to kill an innocent to save the lives of more innocents than it would be to kill an innocent for fun.

 

[Pickman's model]

Undergrads talk a lot of wank. Although BeattieP does strive for the wankiest of wank

I try to follow w.c. fields' advice, never work with children or animals

 

[redsquirrel]

Not a straw man because the warnings didn't save the lives of those who died. One life is enough is it not?

What utter crap. The warnings saved some lives.

EDIT: Your idiotic position makes the actions of Red Brigades the same as the 7/7 bombers.

 

[Treacle Toes]

What's a civil war?

Did you answer my question?

...and if your answer is there is a difference in terms of and terminology, characterisation and expectation of a civil war, please expand on that point.

 

[Shechemite]

I try to follow w.c. fields' advice, never work with children or animals

Crap advice. I work in early years. Very rewarding.

 

[Treacle Toes]

What utter crap. The warnings saved some lives.

Point is they didn't save the lives of those who died. Which is what I wrote.

 

[Beats & Pieces]

Pointy head wank, "a distinction of the operational intention" blah blah. Never heard such vacuous tosh in all my born days.

C-

Stick to issuing books.