You've never been chased by the police helicopter whilst eating bacon on toast?
mmmmmmm... bacon on toast!
There's no such thing as ethical veal. What next... ethical genocide?
Scoffing too much meat and eggs is ‘just as bad as smoking’, claim scientists
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
You've never been chased by the police helicopter whilst eating bacon on toast?
mmmmmmm... bacon on toast!
There's no such thing as ethical veal. What next... ethical genocide?
I beg to differ - scratch that - I demand to differ.
If you're not a vegetarian, there is such a thing as ethical veal, in the same way as there's a difference between using fur, hide, or leather byproducts of the meat industry and using fur, hide, or leather from an animal which doesn't get eaten.
How is it, or could it possibly be construed, that taking a baby from its mother at a few days old and killing it at a few months old, is in any way 'ethical'?
E2A... I love meat. I love a nice steak and I love bacon but I refuse to eat lamb or veal. This doesn't make me in any way better than someone who likes to eat babies but it makes me feel a little less guilty.
If you use milk, that calf would be taken from its mother and killed anyway.
Don't try to gross me out, next you'll be telling me about bee vomit (honey) and chicken periods (unfertilised eggs).
If you use milk, that calf would be taken from its mother and killed anyway.
Don't try to gross me out, next you'll be telling me about bee vomit (honey) and chicken periods (unfertilised eggs).
I'm not trying to gross you out, nor am I trying to put myself forward as being morally superior in any way. I'm simply saying that veal, in any form, isn't ethical.
I hold my hands up and admit that I eat murdered animals but I wouldn't try to convince myself that any form of murder can be in any way ethical.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
a bacon and egg sarnie would be pretty bland without the bacon and egg.
editor
hiraethified
You get excited by a bacon and egg sarnie? Oh OK.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
damn right, it's the little things that help get me through the day.
I'm also like a little kid at Christmas when I realise that it's Friday, which is burger day*.
*.yes I have to limit myself to one day a week for burgers or I'd be a right fat git
I do. One of the few pleasures I have left these days. I had 2 bacon and egg rolls last night, and thoroughly enjoyed them.
editor
hiraethified
I'm glad you find it so exciting.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
People are murdered, not animals.
I prefer my definition to that of the lawmakers.
And I refuse to get into a pedantic argument with you, because you talk more shite than any politician or American I've ever listened to.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I'm not interested in an argument with you. And you can use any idiosyncratic definition for any word you'd like. You can have a personal definition that 'yes' actually means 'no'.
Won't help much when you try to communicate with others, though.
fractionMan
Custom Title
you need to check the TB thread then.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Am I the only one who finds it irritating that this kind of individualist neo-Puritan pseudoscientific horseshit gets plastered all over the news while the wider reasons for bad diets and ill health are glossed over if not outright ignored?
Nope, it's never the fault of the for-profit food industry for either selling heaps of cheap crap or ripping people off for anything half-way decent. Chaotic lifestyles brought about by increasingly demanding and unrewarding jobs (see: increase in zero-hours shitwork) are never to blame. It's all the fault of us individual sinners with our choccy and burger-scoffing proclivities, with the added bonus for the self-righteous that it can't just be dismissed as a load of spiritual mumbo-jumbo made up by a bunch of miserable old men. A new asceticism for a scientific age!
Apart from that, even if there are some facts underlying the arguments of the media's constant stream of neurotic obsession, the tedious sermonising nature of these paeans to live a long and dull life munching rabbit food puts me off regardless, and I suspect I'm not the only one. Since we're living longer as mod pointed out on the first page, the trade-off seems reasonable enough to me at least.
/rant
Nope, it's never the fault of the for-profit food industry for either selling heaps of cheap crap or ripping people off for anything half-way decent. Chaotic lifestyles brought about by increasingly demanding and unrewarding jobs (see: increase in zero-hours shitwork) are never to blame. It's all the fault of us individual sinners with our choccy and burger-scoffing proclivities, with the added bonus for the self-righteous that it can't just be dismissed as a load of spiritual mumbo-jumbo made up by a bunch of miserable old men. A new asceticism for a scientific age!
Apart from that, even if there are some facts underlying the arguments of the media's constant stream of neurotic obsession, the tedious sermonising nature of these paeans to live a long and dull life munching rabbit food puts me off regardless, and I suspect I'm not the only one. Since we're living longer as mod pointed out on the first page, the trade-off seems reasonable enough to me at least.
/rant
Word.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
Isn't it the case that if you eat cheese or drink milk you pretty much (as an omnivore) have an ethical obligation to eat veal? Because of the dairy industry, British boy calves were just disposed of at birth (no good for dairy farming), because Brits had become very resolved against veal. Now with a slight resurgence of veal consumption, they're more likely to live a bit first.
Of course, it's not much if a life... But better than newborn cow scrappage, which is what has to happen otherwise, if we are to have milk and cheese.
Have to say, as an observing omnivore, I find veganism - or at least non-dairy consumption vegetarianism - a more ethically consistent position. But then I guess vegetarianism isn't simply an ethical choice, and cheese is less squick-making than flesh, so it could be that. But in terms of killing animals to make food, dairy has a pretty high body count.
Of course, it's not much if a life... But better than newborn cow scrappage, which is what has to happen otherwise, if we are to have milk and cheese.
Have to say, as an observing omnivore, I find veganism - or at least non-dairy consumption vegetarianism - a more ethically consistent position. But then I guess vegetarianism isn't simply an ethical choice, and cheese is less squick-making than flesh, so it could be that. But in terms of killing animals to make food, dairy has a pretty high body count.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
So true. Nowadays, to eat a healthy diet requires extra money in the pocketbook, lots of research, and lots of time to travel far and wide to scattered stores that actually carry healthy food.
Do you drink milk or consume any milk products? If so, you are complicit in what you define as "murder" whether you eat veal or not.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
And it's also the well-documented case that if life is bleak and a constant financial struggle, seeking instant pleasures in the salty/fatty/sugary yum-explosions of processed foods is completely understandable. My husband mask lovely lentil soup, aromatic with cumin seeds. Does it feel like a treat in the same way a deep pan cheesy pizza does? Nope.
But we can afford to find gratification in other stuff - a new film on netflix, planning a weekend away, shopping for clothes online. If you're skint, an oven full of frozen pizza is a few quid of happy.
Yes. George Orwell said as much.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
Indeed. Road to Wigan Pier, no? Sweet tea and white bread, iirc.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I totally agree with the point you and others have made that veal is connected to milk production, and that decrying veal as unethical has further implications which are often not recognised.
But I also think that eating veal (and other meat) is an ethically consistent position*, just a differently ethical one to those who claim that killing animals for food is murder. As long as the animals are treated humanely (and yes, I recognise that often they aren't), my ethics are satisfied.
What I personally find far less ethical is, as NoXion has mentioned,
and
I'd like to think my ethics are more focussed on people, TBH.
*this isn't a criticism of your point, BTW, more a response to/development of it
As opposed to the cheap and nutritious alternative of the time, which he also mentioned: Raw carrots (to save on cooking costs), lentil soup, wholemeal bread (very heavy and coarse back then), porridge, and maybe an orange - with the same thing every week. That doesn't even appeal now, even if it is more or less balanced.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
titter
disappointed to see you jumping on that childish bandwagon
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
awwww, is it a bit too real for you?
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
You don't get excited about a nice meal?
Plenty of people do look forward to what they eat. Simple pleasures in life.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
What's childish? Editor was saying he couldn't see what was exciting about eating meat, and people were describing foods that give them that feeling.
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