Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

Incedently, violence among trans women is higher than it is among trans men, its equal to violence from men. (no im not useing the term cis men - no one was asisgned cis at birth - so i have no idea why trans people demand iam called cis, let alone the given the fact they think we shoudl be able to decide our gender, nbot have it imposed- another unaddressed doublespeak )

bullshit. Either you can't read or you're lying on purpose.

TERFs get told by author of study that they are interpreting her study wrong, they insist they aren’t

Fact check: study shows transition makes trans people suicidal – The TransAdvocate

Using simple language, would you please speak to those using your work to support the fact assertion that trans women and cis men are alike when it comes to perpetrating incidences of rape, murder, torture, etc? In other words, would you please clarify the following:

A.) As to the “male pattern regarding criminality” your study reviewed, would you please speak to whether your sample is representative of the trans population as a whole?

B.) Does your study support the notion that trans women, epidemiologically speaking, are likely rapists?

C.) Did your study show that trans women, epidemiologically speaking, are just as likely to rape cis women as cis men?

D.) In the way that your study’s morbidity and mortality sample is reviewed as two chronological groups, did you use the same chronological metric for your criminality sample and, if so, what did you find?

E.) Is your “male pattern regarding criminality” a simple comparison of percentages of overall conviction rates between cis males and trans women or is it a quantitative conviction category comparison between the two? In other words, trans women (who may experience around a 50% unemployment rate37% Unemployment: Xavier, J., Bobbin, M., & Singer, B. (2005). A needs assessment of transgendered people of color living in Washington, DC. International Journal of Transgenderism, 8(2/3), 31-47. doi: 10.1300/J485v08n02_04" title="" style="margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; outline: 0px; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">4 67% Unemployment: Kenagy, G. (2005). The health and social service needs of transgender people in Philadelphia. International Journal of Transgenderism, 8(2/3), 45-56. doi: 10.1300/J485v08n02_05" title="" style="margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; outline: 0px; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">5 42% Unemployment: Kenagy, G., & Bostwick, W. (2005). The health and social service needs of transgender people in Chicago. International Journal of Transgenderism, 8(2/3), 57-66. doi: 10.1300/J485v08n02_06" title="" style="margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; outline: 0px; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">6) will generally bear a greater burden of convictions associated with social oppression, poverty and homelessness (squatting, loitering, panhandling, prostitution and non-violent crimes such as drug use and petty theft) than cis men. When your study looked at the “male pattern regarding criminality” between cis men and trans women, are you saying that your data shows that cis men are being convicted for crimes associated with oppression, poverty and homelessness at a rate similar to that found in the trans population?

Dhejne: The individual in the image who is making claims about trans criminality, specifically rape likelihood, is misrepresenting the study findings. The study as a whole covers the period between 1973 and 2003. If one divides the cohort into two groups, 1973 to 1988 and 1989 to 2003, one observes that for the latter group (1989 – 2003), differences in mortality, suicide attempts and crime disappear. This means that for the 1989 to 2003 group, we did not find a male pattern of criminality.

As to the criminality metric itself, we were measuring and comparing the total number of convictions, not conviction type. We were not saying that cisgender males are convicted of crimes associated with marginalization and poverty. We didn’t control for that and we were certainly not saying that we found that trans women were a rape risk. What we were saying was that for the 1973 to 1988 cohort group and the cisgender male group, both experienced similar rates of convictions. As I said, this pattern is not observed in the 1989 to 2003 cohort group.

The difference we observed between the 1989 to 2003 cohort and the control group is that the trans cohort group accessed more mental health care, which is appropriate given the level of ongoing discrimination the group faces. What the data tells us is that things are getting measurably better and the issues we found affecting the 1973 to 1988 cohort group likely reflects a time when trans health and psychological care was less effective and social stigma was far worse.

There you have it. To be clear:

  • No, the study does not show that medical transition results in suicide or suicidal ideation. The study explicitly states that such is not the case and those using this study to make that claim are using fallacious logic.
  • No, the study does not prove that trans women are rapists or likely to be rapists. The “male pattern of criminality” found in the 1973 to 1988 cohort group was not a euphemism for rape.
  • No, the study does not prove that trans women exhibit male socialization. The “male pattern of criminality” found in the 1973 to 1988 cohort group was not a claim that trans women were convicted of the same types of crime as cis men.
 
In any other subject on U75 I notice that any assertions made are required to be backed up. I've seen people banned for putting up things that they've refused to back up.

But on the subject of trans women there is no critical analysis. Any bullshit claims on here are lapped up by the many transphobic (yes, I will use that word for most of the people on this thread, including MadeinBedlham, Athos, Magnus McGinty and all) posters. I don't see any challenging the claim that trans women are as violent as men, which is in fact a lie, not backed up by any study. The one study I've seen quoted in fact says completely the opposite and you can read (above) where the author of the study states this clearly and unequivocally.

So why all the lies? Why the failure to hold the bullshitters to account? You'd think if those who wish to destroy trans women had an argument you wouldn't have to lie, but you all do all the time!!

If you want a debate, stop with the lies, the insinuations and the obvious hatred.

I can't actually believe I'm back on here, but I had to say something, it's been nagging at me for ages now.
 
Complaints about evidence based assertions are pretty ironic coming from you, especially when you then go on, yet again, to make evidence free assertions of transphobia against a number of posters.

Your behaviour on these boards is a perfect illustration of the toxic influence of solopsistic ID politics which is undermining any genuine collective politics.
 
Any bullshit claims on here are lapped up by the many transphobic (yes, I will use that word for most of the people on this thread, including MadeinBedlham, Athos, Magnus McGinty and all) posters. I don't see any challenging the claim that trans women are as violent as men, which is in fact a lie, not backed up by any study. The one study I've seen quoted in fact says completely the opposite and you can read (above) where the author of the study states this clearly and unequivocally.

So why all the lies? Why the failure to hold the bullshitters to account?

In the spirit of holding buillshitters to account...

Your (evidence-free) post accusing me of having lapped up/failed to challenge bullshit claims (like the misinterpretation of the study of offending) is, in itself, demonstrably untrue. Quite the opposite happened, in fact; I explicitly challanged a poster's misuse of that study (on the 'perplexed' thread, as I've not been back on this thread since it was posted here).

Did that study control for other factors e.g. that trans women are more likely to be involved in sex work than cis men, meaning an elevated likelihood of conviction? And did it consider the victims of their crimes, sufficient to draw the conclusion that trans women are as likely as cis men to convict violent or sexual crimes against women (rater than other sorts of crime)? Also, didn't the correlation to which you refer only apply to those who transitioned before 1989?

... I can see that a lot of what you're saying is intellectualy dishonest, which suggests to me it's motivated by bigotry.

... points towards your misuse of the study you cited, for example.

An apology for this lie (the latest in a series) would be welcome, please.
 
Last edited:
In any other subject on U75 I notice that any assertions made are required to be backed up. I've seen people banned for putting up things that they've refused to back up.

But on the subject of trans women there is no critical analysis. Any bullshit claims on here are lapped up by the many transphobic (yes, I will use that word for most of the people on this thread, including MadeinBedlham, Athos, Magnus McGinty and all) posters. I don't see any challenging the claim that trans women are as violent as men, which is in fact a lie, not backed up by any study. The one study I've seen quoted in fact says completely the opposite and you can read (above) where the author of the study states this clearly and unequivocally.

So why all the lies? Why the failure to hold the bullshitters to account? You'd think if those who wish to destroy trans women had an argument you wouldn't have to lie, but you all do all the time!!

If you want a debate, stop with the lies, the insinuations and the obvious hatred.

I can't actually believe I'm back on here, but I had to say something, it's been nagging at me for ages now.

Oh look. Someone else with zero interest in anarchism has turned up to stick the boot in.
 
But on the subject of trans women there is no critical analysis. Any bullshit claims on here are lapped up by the many transphobic (yes, I will use that word for most of the people on this thread, including MadeinBedlham, Athos, Magnus McGinty and all) posters. I don't see any challenging the claim that trans women are as violent as men, which is in fact a lie, not backed up by any study. The one study I've seen quoted in fact says completely the opposite and you can read (above) where the author of the study states this clearly and unequivocally.

So why all the lies? Why the failure to hold the bullshitters to account? You'd think if those who wish to destroy trans women had an argument you wouldn't have to lie, but you all do all the time!!

If you want a debate, stop with the lies, the insinuations and the obvious hatred.

I can't actually believe I'm back on here, but I had to say something, it's been nagging at me for ages now.

As far as I can tell - given my repeated condemnation of the abuse of trans people, my clear position that trans people should be allowed to live full and authentic lives, my continued assurance that (for all practical purposes) I consider trans people to be the gender they believe themselves to be, my challanges to others who make transphobic arguments, the fact that I've never claimed that all trans women are autogyneohiles or rapists, and because I've never misgendered anyone - there is only one difference between us that could conceivably be the basis of your accusation of transphobia against me. That's my position that women ought to be free to discuss the issue of what it means to be a woman, without abuse or the fear of abuse.

Please would you confirm whether you consider such a position to be transphobic, and why? Because it seems to me that you sling that slur around without any basis, as a weapon. Increasingly, people are realising that it's a dishonest tactic used by some TRAs to silence women and those who support their rights.

If you don't consider that position transphobic, please would you either retract your smear, or provide anything you consider to be evidence for it?

I've seen people banned for putting up things that they've refused to back up.
 
Last edited:
In any other subject on U75 I notice that any assertions made are required to be backed up. I've seen people banned for putting up things that they've refused to back up.

But on the subject of trans women there is no critical analysis. Any bullshit claims on here are lapped up by the many transphobic (yes, I will use that word for most of the people on this thread, including MadeinBedlham, Athos, Magnus McGinty and all) posters. I don't see any challenging the claim that trans women are as violent as men, which is in fact a lie, not backed up by any study. The one study I've seen quoted in fact says completely the opposite and you can read (above) where the author of the study states this clearly and unequivocally.

So why all the lies? Why the failure to hold the bullshitters to account? You'd think if those who wish to destroy trans women had an argument you wouldn't have to lie, but you all do all the time!!

If you want a debate, stop with the lies, the insinuations and the obvious hatred.

I can't actually believe I'm back on here, but I had to say something, it's been nagging at me for ages now.
Yeh. The point in para 1, can you back it up with examples?
 
Your claim that I’m transphobic Sea Star - back it up or retract it.

They're not going to back up, retract it or, probably, refrain from making similar claims in the future, so while I understand you and Athos making that request, I fear you're wasting your time and risking derailing the thread further into the minutiae of which individuals they think are transphobic.
 
Apologies Sea Star I've not been following the thread closely recently, but the poster (I won't tag or quote them directly at this point) who seems to have suggested
that trans women are as violent as men, which is in fact a lie, not backed up by any study.
joined on Monday and has only made 6 posts iirc. Time will tell what sort of of reception they get from Urban should they stick around, but I don't think that alone is a fair basis for calling other posters transphobic.
 
That's really not true at all, except under exceptional circumstances (usually legal).

If we did ban people for not backing up their claims, we would have lost an awful lot of posters!

Also lies are her allegations of transphobia. Please would you ask her to provide evidence or retract them?
 
I won't retract. Editor will have to ban me first. I speak as I find. If you don't like it stop being transphobic.
 
That's really not true at all, except under exceptional circumstances (usually legal).

If we did ban people for not backing up their claims, we would have lost an awful lot of posters!
conspiraloon - which is most of what this TERF nonsense is tbh.
 
Is any of this helping anyone?

Do you think it's helpful to anyone to allow Sea Star and a relative handful of other posters to continue to make unfounded allegations of this sort, over and over again without being pulled up on it, or do you think that we, as members of an online community, have some responsibility to challenge such allegations and demonstrate that we as a community are not prepared to tolerate their behaviour?

Your previous post suggests
Apologies Sea Star I've not been following the thread closely recently, but the poster (I won't tag or quote them directly at this point) who seems to have suggested joined on Monday and has only made 6 posts iirc. Time will tell what sort of of reception they get from Urban should they stick around, but I don't think that alone is a fair basis for calling other posters transphobic.

It's clear to me (and I suspect many others here) that the poster in question isn't remotely interested in being fair, or honest in their dealings, so appeals to reasonableness are simply not going to work.
 
Last edited:

ok I could go back and forth on studies about this, but ive been there before, its like debating climate deniars. To be honest I can't really demonstrate better how a LOT of trans women ARE violent other than pointing to this web site: TERF is a slur which has an ever growing list of violent threatening tweets. Some of the things being said here made my blood curdle. They are terrifying for women who already suffer a persistent fear of male violence. The list of tweets is so long and cruel I couldn't get through them all. Now if you can find or compile a similar list of tweets from Radical Femists, then I'll eat my hat and apologize for being a liar or unable to read. Also, I note that the vast majority of these tweets , if not all of them are from trans identified males. Or transwomen, if you prefer. Not trans men. Theres a pattern if its m2f trans and not f2m trans that mostly behave this way, don't you accept? Also how many violent crimes, convictions have there been for trans men vs trans females? Can you name more than 2 cases of tranmen killing other women?

terfisalsur.com
 
Last edited:
In any other subject on U75 I notice that any assertions made are required to be backed up. I've seen people banned for putting up things that they've refused to back up.

But on the subject of trans women there is no critical analysis. Any bullshit claims on here are lapped up by the many transphobic (yes, I will use that word for most of the people on this thread, including MadeinBedlham, Athos, Magnus McGinty and all) posters. I don't see any challenging the claim that trans women are as violent as men, which is in fact a lie, not backed up by any study. The one study I've seen quoted in fact says completely the opposite and you can read (above) where the author of the study states this clearly and unequivocally.

So why all the lies? Why the failure to hold the bullshitters to account? You'd think if those who wish to destroy trans women had an argument you wouldn't have to lie, but you all do all the time!!

If you want a debate, stop with the lies, the insinuations and the obvious hatred.

I can't actually believe I'm back on here, but I had to say something, it's been nagging at me for ages now.
Suppose for a minute that transwomen happend to be as violent as men, just supose, hypothetically, would you think TERFs have a case to exclude men from their spaces? Because if not then all this is irrelevent, and arguing studies is a waste of time. If however you agree that it would change your view on trans activism, then I will happily devote a time debating the studies with you. Otherwise do you see why its pointless arguing studies you dont even believe matter?
 
Apologies Sea Star I've not been following the thread closely recently, but the poster (I won't tag or quote them directly at this point) who seems to have suggested joined on Monday and has only made 6 posts iirc. Time will tell what sort of of reception they get from Urban should they stick around, but I don't think that alone is a fair basis for calling other posters transphobic.
I am new to this forum. I came from a link from another anarchist website discussing the book fair. I'm not transphobic (that feels like a slur), but I do often fear men, so who knows? does that make me manphobic? I dont think so. - i dont hate trans people or men - if that counts? I wouldn't use slurs against trans people and I support transwomens 'right' to think they are women. I dont support their desire to demand everyone else treat them as female in law. My question is simply: why on earth do people think transwomen ARN'T as violent as men? Can anyone site any evidence they are all gentle kind beings who wouldnt harm a soul. Excluding the elephant in the room - the fact violence from trans women (that we all saw) manged to close an entire bookfair down and next years as well. Its a sexist assumption to assume that changing your chosen identity automatically make you less violent. Are people saying transmen are more violent than transwomen? Or are they just saying most trans people arent violent? If so thats meaningless as it also applies to all men and women too. What I am talking about here is large minorities. Large minorities of men (I assume i need to provide evidence for violence in men right?) and large minorities of transwomen (see turfisaslur.com for tonnes of blood curdling evidence there) . Most transwomen, like men, I agree are unlikely to be violent against women. But the fear , perceived and actual, and real threat from large minorities of violent people, mostly men, but also transwomen matters. Thats why feminism exists and the debate shouldn't be shut down with 'transphobe'. Especially by violent means.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom