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Russian Missile Tests Off Coast of Ireland

Idris2002 said:
You know it's bad when fish is the voice of reason.

There's a certain current in British thinking about Ireland which, funnily enough, mirror's a similar train of thought in Russian thinking about Ukraine - "they're not really a real country, they're just being difficult for the sake of it".
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A
 
Tbf it's more the pleasant if poor relatives in the self contained granny annexe😂 rather than the insane ones we locked in the attic and never talk about😱😳.
There's a certain type of Irish person who wants a NATO spec defence force which would cost billions and billions to do very little chase antiquated russian bombers harass subs in the irish sea wave at the RAF etc.
Ireland doesn't really face any threat justifying the expense simply so the British can't laugh at you. If the Irish goverment decided to buy enough kit to seriously threaten /impress the UK we'd probably invade along with the UN as you'd have turned into a rather soggy North korea😳
 
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Idris2002 said:
ow it's bad when fish is the voice of reason.

There's a certain current in British thinking about Ireland which, funnily enough, mirror's a similar train of thought in Russian thinking about Ukraine - "they're not really a real country, they're just being difficult for the sake of it".
Click to expand...

No, different.

There is sometimes an exasperation, by no means limited to to the UK, that Ireland talks a great deal about sovereignty and neutrality, but actually does nothing to enforce it.

More like 'we believe you to be a proper country, why don't you act like it?'.

If Ireland believes it should not assist Ukraine with weapons, whether because it feels it needs all its got, or because it believes that feeding an insurgency is wrong (both perfectly valid, legitimate views, ones I've heard in several European political/military establishments, including the UK) then fine, but to push out a load of bollocks like that they won't work properly in Ukraine, or that Irish logggies are incapable of putting them on a plane (something they do quite regularly) fits exactly into a narrative that is heard within Irish politics that Ireland isn't a proper, grown up state. That Irish people shouldn't expect the same capability/competence/confidence that you might see in France, or Sweden, or Estonia because 'we can't/don't do that here..'.

The only people who believe that Ireland isn't big enough, old enough, rich enough or ugly enough to manage its own affairs are - barring the odd nutjob up north - in Ireland.
 
kebabking said:
The only people who believe that Ireland isn't big enough, old enough, rich enough or ugly enough to manage its own affairs are - barring the odd nutjob up north - in Ireland.
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And funnily enough, most of those people are in the neutrality-opposing Irish Times reading classes.
 
platinumsage said:
Ireland have no one to blame for their laughable defence force but themselves.



The point is, who in Ireland is confident we haven't established that in respect of Ireland?
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In fairness...they have only been independent a relatively short time.
And pretty much started from not a lot
 
Aladdin said:
In fairness...they have only been independent a relatively short time.
And pretty much started from not a lot
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well if only this was around 20 years ago we could of send more weapons but most of them were decommisoned or sold to gangsters

:hmm:
 
tbf Irelands GDP is more smoke and mirrors than most its not like Google is making its money selling services in Dublin.
 
Americans on the Second World War:

"Gee whillikers, my grandpappy sure had a swell time liberating Europe from that there Hitler fella".

Brits on the Second World War:

"There was talk of me being court-martialled, but then Singapore fell and I never heard anything more about it".

Euros (any country) on the Second World War:

"By chance was I spared. If my luck leaves me I am lost".

Irish people on the Second World War:

"Oh noez, we missed the big party the cool kids went to".

From such imbecilities will come the end of Irish neutrality.
 
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kebabking said:
If Ireland believes it should not assist Ukraine with weapons, whether because it feels it needs all its got, or because it believes that feeding an insurgency is wrong (both perfectly valid, legitimate views, ones I've heard in several European political/military establishments, including the UK)
Click to expand...
Can you say more about who is saying that and a bit more perhaps on the case made?
 
_Russ_ said:
Problem is there are fuck loads of Powerful Cunts over there with enough 'ordinary' cunts behind them who are quite happy to keep one big Cunt in power ...witness the UK situation
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As far as putin goes it's the other way round imo
 
ska invita said:
Can you say more about who is saying that and a bit more perhaps on the case made?
Click to expand...

It came from a range of military people both senior and more junior, and civilian political, Diplomatic, Intelligence, and MOD at senior and junior levels.

It had three thrusts, which were overwhelming mixed in with eachother, and indeed fed into each other.

1. The Russians are going to roll over Ukraine in a matter of days. Nothing will stop them, and giving the Ukrainians weapons systems won't affect the end result, but will simply get people killed who otherwise probably wouldn't be.

2. Giving them weapons, in addition to point 1, might lead them to believe that if they fight hard enough, and hold the Russians up for long enough, we'll come riding to the rescue. We won't.

3. The Russians are coming - Ukraine now but soon enough it'll be a NATO state. Every Javelin or NLAW we give to the Ukrainians is a Javelin or NLAW we don't have to fire at Russian tanks in Estonia or Poland. As we didn't know what would happen in terms of Ukrainian resistance and/or Russian incompetence, this concern was exacerbated by the possibility that would ship half our entire stock of NLAW to Ukraine to watch it get dropped in surrender after 2 days of war.

I had some sympathy with all three concerns. None of the people I heard them from were appeasers - I would say that the above concerns/reservations were a product of not knowing how effective the Ukrainians would be in de-railing. I haven't heard them since the end of week one.
 
Some more thoughts on Ireland's neutrality from rte..

"The first among these is the belief that a statement of neutrality is, in some way, a defence in itself. This is an historically illiterate viewpoint. The list of countries that tried to adopt a neutral stance during World War II is a long one and includes traditionally neutral countries such as Belgium, the Netherlands and Finland, all of which were invaded during WW2 by either Germany or Russia.""

www.rte.ie

Why Russia's war on Ukraine should be a wake-up call for Ireland

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has had a massive global effect, something which has major ramifications for Ireland's defence strategy
www.rte.ie www.rte.ie
 
Remember: there's nothing anyone can do, we're all fucked and if you disagree with this you're a war lover in league with and parroting our rulers.
 
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