Russian Missile Tests Off Coast of Ireland

[Dogsauce]

Does NATO do military exercises in the Baltic or anywhere else on Russia’s doorstep? Is this that much different? Just seems a bit ‘red scare‘ to me, though easy to see where that’s coming from with the Ukraine stuff in the background.

 

[steveo87]

Does NATO do military exercises in the Baltic or anywhere else on Russia’s doorstep? Is this that much different? Just seems a bit ‘red scare‘ to me, though easy to see where that’s coming from with the Ukraine stuff in the background.

Oh, almost certainly.
Whats odd/telling is that they just happen to be doing this at the exact same time as everything that's happening (or not) in the Ukraine.
But you're right, 'we' do it all the time, usually off rhe coast of Korea or Taiwan...

 

[Aladdin]

I was reading the guidance for what to do.in the event of radiation fallout
"Go indoors and stay indoors and turn on the radio" is the advice.
But most radios are digital now.
I dont think we have an old radio here.
So if internet goes down..and they targetted those cables...we would be really isolated.

 

[Idris2002]

I was reading the guidance for what to do.in the event of radiation fallout
"Go indoors and stay indoors and turn on the radio" is the advice.
But most radios are digital now.
I dont think we have an old radio here.
So if internet goes down..and they targetted those cables...we would be really isolated.

"Put your head between your knees, and kiss your ass goodbye".

 

[Supine]

I can’t imagine how bad a lockdown would be without the internet!

 

[steveo87]

I was reading the guidance for what to do.in the event of radiation fallout
"Go indoors and stay indoors and turn on the radio" is the advice.
But most radios are digital now.
I dont think we have an old radio here.
So if internet goes down..and they targetted those cables...we would be really isolated.

They knew the advice was bullshit when it was originally drawn up in the 1940s.
Even the most ardent supporter of nuclear weapons knows/knew its the end of the civilisation if there's ant form of exchange.

 

[Aladdin]

They knew the advice was bullshit when it was originally drawn up in the 1940s.
Even the most ardent supporter of nuclear weapons knows/knew its the end of the civilisation if there's ant form of exchange.

I was talking with my dad about this the other day. He's 81.
He said a pal of his built an underground bunker in his back garden because of fears of a nuclear war ... I think this was in the 80s? But it could have been 60s.. must check later with him.

 

[NoXion]

They knew the advice was bullshit when it was originally drawn up in the 1940s.
Even the most ardent supporter of nuclear weapons knows/knew its the end of the civilisation if there's ant form of exchange.

It's not bullshit. Fallout is NOT some kind of magical "kill everything instantly and forever" dust. It has a half-life, both in terms of radiation and in terms of how long and how much of it will remain suspended in the atmosphere. So remaining indoors for a period of time post-detonation is sound advice for reducing (although not eliminating) exposure to radioactive particulate matter. It could mean the difference between survival and a slow and painful death from radiation sickness.

Similar deal with the "duck and cover" advice to hide under a sturdy table. That was about avoiding a face full of glass shards or being crushed by falling objects, not surviving a supersonic blast wave direct to the face.

Non-digital radios still exist. Even I have one. And there would be plenty of places in the world which wouldn't get hit (like most of the southern hemisphere), so even civilisation wouldn't be wiped out in a nuclear exchange. It would still be one of the worst disasters in history and we should definitely avoid it, but hyperbole isn't going to help anyone.

 

[Aladdin]

It's not bullshit. Fallout is NOT some kind of magical "kill everything instantly and forever" dust. It has a half-life, both in terms of radiation and in terms of how long and how much of it will remain suspended in the atmosphere. So remaining indoors for a period of time post-detonation is sound advice for reducing (although not eliminating) exposure to radioactive particulate matter. It could mean the difference between survival and a slow and painful death from radiation sickness.

Similar deal with the "duck and cover" advice to hide under a sturdy table. That was about avoiding a face full of glass shards or being crushed by falling objects, not surviving a supersonic blast wave direct to the face.

Non-digital radios still exist. Even I have one. And there would be plenty of places in the world which wouldn't get hit (like most of the southern hemisphere), so even civilisation wouldn't be wiped out in a nuclear exchange. It would still be one of the worst disasters in history and we should definitely avoid it, but hyperbole isn't going to help anyone.

I remember as a young kid thinking about where the safest place in the house would be in the event of a nuclear explosion 30km away and the subsequent fallout etc.
The house we grew up in was small. The only place that I thought might be ok was a plastered in alcove under the stairs that was actually in the kitchen.
I figured we could be safe under there AND close to food.

 

[krtek a houby]

Haven't felt this alarmed since the 80s, tbh

 

[Idris2002]

Haven't felt this alarmed since the 80s, tbh

We're neutral, so we'll be alright.

(and this whole business underlines why we should keep on being neutral - though NATO membership might be the price of reunification. Whether NATO still exists in a meaningful form when we reincorporate the fourth green field is another question)

 

[krtek a houby]

We're neutral, so we'll be alright.

(and this whole business underlines why we should keep on being neutral - though NATO membership might be the price of reunification. Whether NATO still exists in a meaningful form when we reincorporate the fourth green field is another question)

The Shannon debacle might have put our neutrality in question, mind.

 

[kebabking]

We're neutral, so we'll be alright.

(and this whole business underlines why we should keep on being neutral - though NATO membership might be the price of reunification. Whether NATO still exists in a meaningful form when we reincorporate the fourth green field is another question)

This is, with the greatest of respect to Idris2002, the problem with the Neutrality issue within Irish politics - it's an internal discussion about how Ireland see's itself - unfortunately, Neutrality (the actual legally accepted version as set out by the Geneva conventions) is about how others see you.

Does anyone actually believe that Russia, or China see Ireland - a member of the EU, a voter and enabler of sanctions on Russia, with friendly security relationships with its neighbours, it's economy, politics and foreign policy utterly tied to the EU/NATO continent, as well as not meeting the military requirements for neutrality - as being neutral, and therefore deserving of the protections due to neutral states?

Or, indeed, that they care about the concept of neutrality?

 

[Idris2002]

This is, with the greatest of respect to Idris2002, the problem with the Neutrality issue within Irish politics - it's an internal discussion about how Ireland see's itself - unfortunately, Neutrality (the actual legally accepted version as set out by the Geneva conventions) is about how others see you.

Does anyone actually believe that Russia, or China see Ireland - a member of the EU, a voter and enabler of sanctions on Russia, with friendly security relationships with its neighbours, it's economy, politics and foreign policy utterly tied to the EU/NATO continent, as well as not meeting the military requirements for neutrality - as being neutral, and therefore deserving of the protections due to neutral states?

Or, indeed, that they care about the concept of neutrality?

Given that Irish troops have served in UN forces for decades in places where neutral parties were needed (Congo, South Lebanon, etc), I'd say a lot of people out there do see us as neutral.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is, with the greatest of respect to Idris2002, the problem with the Neutrality issue within Irish politics - it's an internal discussion about how Ireland see's itself - unfortunately, Neutrality (the actual legally accepted version as set out by the Geneva conventions) is about how others see you.

Does anyone actually believe that Russia, or China see Ireland - a member of the EU, a voter and enabler of sanctions on Russia, with friendly security relationships with its neighbours, it's economy, politics and foreign policy utterly tied to the EU/NATO continent, as well as not meeting the military requirements for neutrality - as being neutral, and therefore deserving of the protections due to neutral states?

Or, indeed, that they care about the concept of neutrality?

being as ireland has allowed united states military flights to use shannon airport the neutrality as expressed by successive governments is more of a figleaf than a real position Renewed calls to stop letting US troops use Shannon Airport

 

[RainbowTown]

As Russia eventually turns back.

X

 

[CNT36]

It's not bullshit. Fallout is NOT some kind of magical "kill everything instantly and forever" dust. It has a half-life, both in terms of radiation and in terms of how long and how much of it will remain suspended in the atmosphere. So remaining indoors for a period of time post-detonation is sound advice for reducing (although not eliminating) exposure to radioactive particulate matter. It could mean the difference between survival and a slow and painful death from radiation sickness.

Similar deal with the "duck and cover" advice to hide under a sturdy table. That was about avoiding a face full of glass shards or being crushed by falling objects, not surviving a supersonic blast wave direct to the face.

Non-digital radios still exist. Even I have one. And there would be plenty of places in the world which wouldn't get hit (like most of the southern hemisphere), so even civilisation wouldn't be wiped out in a nuclear exchange. It would still be one of the worst disasters in history and we should definitely avoid it, but hyperbole isn't going to help anyone.

The way nuclear weapons command and control is structured it is unlikely any exchange will remain localised so you'd also have to factor in nuclear winter which although not a direct hit will affect the southern hemisphere. I cannot imagine much civilisation surviving in the north where the effects will be far worse. A temperature drop of between 20 - 30 degrees across huge areas of North America and Eurasia will bring civilisation to its knees. Starvation will be a likely consequence for many of the survivors.

 

[A380]

This is, with the greatest of respect to Idris2002, the problem with the Neutrality issue within Irish politics - it's an internal discussion about how Ireland see's itself - unfortunately, Neutrality (the actual legally accepted version as set out by the Geneva conventions) is about how others see you.

Does anyone actually believe that Russia, or China see Ireland - a member of the EU, a voter and enabler of sanctions on Russia, with friendly security relationships with its neighbours, it's economy, politics and foreign policy utterly tied to the EU/NATO continent, as well as not meeting the military requirements for neutrality - as being neutral, and therefore deserving of the protections due to neutral states?

Or, indeed, that they care about the concept of neutrality?

Ah, but if there was a war between Nato and Russia following an invasion of Ukraine that lasted for years and killed hundreds of millions of people then, if Russia was defeated and Putin killed, the Irish government could send an official message of condolence to the Russian government. Then deny jobs and benefits any Irish people who decided to help the fight against Putin for decades afterwards...

 

[keybored]

Non-digital radios still exist. Even I have one. And there would be plenty of places in the world which wouldn't get hit (like most of the southern hemisphere), so even civilisation wouldn't be wiped out in a nuclear exchange. It would still be one of the worst disasters in history and we should definitely avoid it, but hyperbole isn't going to help anyone.

Besides that, digital radios work over-the-air the same way as FM or AM ones do. Not sure why a nuclear blast would affect them any differently.

 

[kebabking]

Given that Irish troops have served in UN forces for decades in places where neutral parties were needed (Congo, South Lebanon, etc), I'd say a lot of people out there do see us as neutral.

Is this a special category of UN force, or is it just the same as UK, French, Canadian, Danish etc... UN troops?

Irish troops in the EU force in Mali, UK troops in the UN force in Mali - is the UK therefore more neutral than Ireland?

 

[kebabking]

being as ireland has allowed united states military flights to use shannon airport the neutrality as expressed by successive governments is more of a figleaf than a real position Renewed calls to stop letting US troops use Shannon Airport

Ireland has also allowed Russian aircraft to land in Shannon - they just get more requests from the US....

Do you think that Ireland being a member of the EU, and using its government departments, law enforcement and judiciary to enforce EU sanctions on Russia is more or less of a 'not really neutral' flag to Russia than US flights into Shannon?

 

[Pickman's model]

Ireland has also allowed Russian aircraft to land in Shannon - they just get more requests from the US....

Do you think that Ireland being a member of the EU, and using its government departments, law enforcement and judiciary to enforce EU sanctions on Russia is more or less of a 'not really neutral' flag to Russia than US flights into Shannon?

do you know, i was talking to vladimir putin this morning and the issue of ireland's neutrality came up, as it does, when the conversation flagged for a moment. vladimir told me my opinion was of the utmost interest to him, and i told him that between the american flights and the eu bit you mention i felt that he had a point that they weren't as neutral as they might be

 

[Pickman's model]

Ireland has also allowed Russian aircraft to land in Shannon - they just get more requests from the US....

i'd be interested in seeing any figures you might have as a quick google suggests nothing (no figures) since 2014 when 0 russian military planes landed in ireland

 

[A380]

i'd be interested in seeing any figures you might have as a quick google suggests nothing (no figures) since 2014 when 0 russian military planes landed in ireland

They don’t count them if the aircrew has just popped in to visit a local cathedral…

 

[Idris2002]

Ah, but if there was a war between Nato and Russia following an invasion of Ukraine that lasted for years and killed hundreds of millions of people then, if Russia was defeated and Putin killed, the Irish government could send an official message of condolence to the Russian government. Then deny jobs and benefits any Irish people who decided to help the fight against Putin for decades afterwards...

Airbus here is alluding to the condolence expressed to the German ambassador after Adolf checked out. What is always left out of this story is the fact that when Franklin Roosevelt died a few weeks earlier, the entirety of Dail Eireann adjourned for the day as a mark of respect.

As for his second sentence, he's referring to the cases of those who deserted from the Irish defence forces in order to join the British army during 1939 - 45. Any army that failed to punish desertion would cease to exist rather quickly, I would imagine.

 

[Idris2002]

i'd be interested in seeing any figures you might have as a quick google suggests nothing (no figures) since 2014 when 0 russian military planes landed in ireland

Aeroflot had a regular stop at Shannon for years - maybe our kebab monarch is thinking of that?

 

[Idris2002]

Is this a special category of UN force, or is it just the same as UK, French, Canadian, Danish etc... UN troops?

Irish troops in the EU force in Mali, UK troops in the UN force in Mali - is the UK therefore more neutral than Ireland?

Do you really think that Irish neutrality played no role at all in the selection of Irish troops for peacekeeping missions, especially during the cold war?

 

[JimW]

Does NATO do military exercises in the Baltic or anywhere else on Russia’s doorstep? Is this that much different? Just seems a bit ‘red scare‘ to me, though easy to see where that’s coming from with the Ukraine stuff in the background.

The Royal Navy has joined the US and Aussies in trips into China's admittedly farcical South China Seas claims to emphasise the right to navigation and the Seventh Fleet regularly steams through the Taiwan Straits so it is a bit sauce for the goose. Plus Russia has every right to defend itself against potential Irish aggression, we all know what these fiery Celts can get like.

 

[Aladdin]

The 60s Fallout booklet.
This was the one in the kitchen drawer well into the 90s where I grew up.

 

[Aladdin]

This is, with the greatest of respect to Idris2002, the problem with the Neutrality issue within Irish politics - it's an internal discussion about how Ireland see's itself - unfortunately, Neutrality (the actual legally accepted version as set out by the Geneva conventions) is about how others see you.

Does anyone actually believe that Russia, or China see Ireland - a member of the EU, a voter and enabler of sanctions on Russia, with friendly security relationships with its neighbours, it's economy, politics and foreign policy utterly tied to the EU/NATO continent, as well as not meeting the military requirements for neutrality - as being neutral, and therefore deserving of the protections due to neutral states?

Or, indeed, that they care about the concept of neutrality?

I don't know...
There are connections with Russia in Ireland. Not least the biggest alluminum plant in europe. Which has had a rough time because if US sanctions..

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