Russell Brand: rape and sexual abuse allegations, grifting and general dodginess - discussion

[paul mckenna]

the lolita shite is very very damning

31 year old with a 16 years old is weird enough but get her to read lolita

woncky nonecy stuff

The furore is getting to Saville levels and strictly speaking though this is on the right side of the line.

People been pointing to the fact there were interviews with the taxi driver who implored the 16 year old not to go up into his flat yet she insisted. Surely this would be evidence of complicity ?!

The actual rape charge is another matter obvs and due process

 

[Petcha]

The furore is getting to Saville levels and strictly speaking though this is on the right side of the line.

People been pointing to the fact there were interviews with the taxi driver who implored the 16 year old not to go up into his flat yet she insisted. Surely this would be evidence of complicity ?!

The actual rape charge is another matter obvs and due process

He offered to send his young assistant to Saville. Naked.

On air. the title of the doco couldn't be more accurate.

 

[paul mckenna]

Again, not illegal. There has to be a line

 

[Petcha]

Again, not illegal. There has to be a line

I get that. Objectively.

The fucker should be put on trial but sadly never will.

 

[Petcha]

As for the Sun.

Awarding him 'Shagger of the Year' repeatedly on their front page. This was fairly recently. What the actual fuck.

 

[paul mckenna]

I think it's a near certainty, right (at least on the rape charge)??


Can't say the authorities have been shy in prosecuting the high profile cases

 

[maomao]

Again, not illegal. There has to be a line

He's a creepy nonce cunt. Being just the right side of legal (in this case, theres still a pretty compelling rape accusation to answer) doesn't change that.

And complicit is not a legal term. I think you mean consent.

 

[goldenecitrone]

As for the Sun.

Awarding him 'Shagger of the Year' repeatedly on their front page. This was fairly recently. What the actual fuck.

The Scum, enabling sex offenders and paedos since the late seventies.

 

[paul mckenna]

He's a creepy nonce cunt. Being just the right side of legal (in this case, theres still a pretty compelling rape accusation to answer) doesn't change that.

And complicit is not a legal term. I think you mean consent.

Being just the right side of legal (in this case, theres still a pretty compelling rape accusation to answer) doesn't change that.

It doesn't change whether someone is prosecuted????? It literally is the definition of illegality

I think you mean consent

Yes, you're right

 

[maomao]

It doesn't change whether someone is prosecuted????? It literally is the definition of illegality

The woman who has made the accusations about him hasn't accused him of breaking any specific laws as far as I can tell; she just wanted people to know what a creepy nonce cunt he is. Someone doesn't have to have broken a law to be exposed as a creepy nonce cunt.

 

[JimW]

Again, not illegal. There has to be a line

Do you mean these allegations shouldn't be aired? He's only up in the court of public opinion as it stands.

 

[paul mckenna]

The woman who has made the accusations about him hasn't accused him of breaking any specific laws as far as I can tell; she just wanted people to know what a creepy nonce cunt he is. Someone doesn't have to have broken a law to be exposed as a creepy nonce cunt.

I mean, if someone has sex thousands of times and stays above 16, that is pretty much the most provenly non-nonce one could be

 

[paul mckenna]

Do you mean these allegations shouldn't be aired? He's only up in the court of public opinion as it stands.

Nope. Just that the language and association with Saville etc is very dangerous stuff

 

[maomao]

I mean, if someone has sex thousands of times and stays above 16, that is pretty much the most provenly non-nonce one could be

Do you find it reasonable for a man in his thirties to seek out the youngest girl he can legally have a relationship with and ask her to read Lolita? Because if you think that's fine that pretty much puts you on the creepy nonce cunt list yourself.

 

[JimW]

Nope. Just that the language and association with Saville etc is very dangerous stuff

That association seems to come from Brand ringing him up and offering sexual favours from an employee. Looks like it's all his own doing and the danger has been to women while he was protected by silence about his behaviour.

 

[paul mckenna]

Do you find it reasonable for a man in his thirties to seek out the youngest girl he can legally have a relationship with and ask her to read Lolita? Because if you think that's fine that pretty much puts you on the creepy nonce cunt list yourself.

Again, all your language is pre-judgmental. Who knows how they met etc etc. I think it's distasteful etc but it's a world apart from real harmful practices

Arranged marriages, child brides etc. There's no possiblility of consensuality here where whole families coerce young women.

Where are the long threads about this

 

[cupid_stunt]

Blimey, it's like Gromit version 2.

 

[maomao]

Where are the long threads about this

We hide them from you because you'd probably get excited.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Again, all your language is pre-judgmental. Who knows how they met etc etc. I think it's distasteful etc but it's a world apart from real harmful practices

Arranged marriages, child brides etc. There's no possiblility of consensuality here where whole families coerce young women.

Where are the long threads about this

What the actual fuck?

 

[story]

Do you mean these allegations shouldn't be aired? He's only up in the court of public opinion as it stands.

paul mckenna


This is a really important part of the issue in my opinion.

If a private citizen is being accused of rapey stuff by the people around him, then it’s a good idea to respect and maintain the anonymity of that citizen especially beyond the parameters of the place in which those allegations are happening. It’s then incumbent on the people with authority to examine and explore those allegations, to see if charges should be laid.

So if a teacher is the target of the allegations, suspend the teacher and investigate but don’t broadcast the allegations. If it’s untrue, it gives them a chance to get back to a normal life.

But if the person is in the public eye, has influence and and audience, those allegations need to be aired more widely. Because if a public person has allegations like this laid against them by people outside their immediate circle, it’s always in the context of their public persona, their public behaviour. As such, silencing the rumours shades into collusion.

The silence around this stuff perpetuates the issue, and further supports rape culture.



This is obviously problematic though. What if a public person gets a bad rep or bad press because they‘re non-conforming or a bit left field. The idiocy about drag artists reading in libraries for instance.

What I’m saying is that RB doesn’t get to claim victim status here. There’s enough noise to support the idea that he’s creepy and inappropriate and problematic and therefore needs to be under scrutiny. He’s not a private person, he’s very public, and as such his behaviour is part of the public domain and needs to be kept under observation. Regardless of anything that results from the current furore.

He’s a whole field of red flags.
Red flags don’t condemn the individual, they alert the people who might be in their sphere of influence.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Nowt harmful at all with a 30 something celebrity getting a 16 year old girl out of school so he could shag her. We’d all do it given the chance, eh lads?

Fucking hell.

 

[Petcha]

He has two young daughters and another in production. I truly feel for them. Not that he would have abused them but the stigma that will never go away unfortunately. What an absolute shit.

I'm a born optimist so you never know. Fatherhood might have changed him. The crimes are unforgivable of course.

When he was interviewed by Stephen Bartlett on his podcast Diary of a CEO, Russell revealed the impact fatherhood has had on him and said: “It taught me there is a lot more important in this world than me There’s a lot more important stuff in this world than what I want, think or reckon. It taught me that love is real. It teaches you everything to become a father. All lessons are there.”

 

[paul mckenna]

paul mckenna


This is a really important part of the issue in my opinion.

If a private citizen is being accused of rapey stuff by the people around him, then it’s a good idea to respect and maintain the anonymity of that citizen especially beyond the parameters of the place in which those allegations are happening. It’s then incumbent on the people with authority to examine and explore those allegations, to see if charges should be laid.

So if a teacher is the target of the allegations, suspend the teacher and investigate but don’t broadcast the allegations. If it’s untrue, it gives them a chance to get back to a normal life.

But if the person is in the public eye, has influence and and audience, those allegations need to be aired more widely. Because if a public person has allegations like this laid against them by people outside their immediate circle, it’s always in the context of their public persona, their public behaviour. As such, silencing the rumours shades into collusion.

The silence around this stuff perpetuates the issue, and further supports rape culture.



This is obviously problematic though. What if a public person gets a bad rep or bad press because they‘re non-conforming or a bit left field. The idiocy about drag artists reading in libraries for instance.

What I’m saying is that RB doesn’t get to claim victim status here. There’s enough noise to support the idea that he’s creepy and inappropriate and problematic and therefore needs to be under scrutiny. He’s not a private person, he’s very public, and as such his behaviour is part of the public domain and needs to be kept under observation. Regardless of anything that results from the current furore.

He’s a whole field of red flags.
Red flags don’t condemn the individual, they alert the people who might be in their sphere of influence.

I fail to see the logic that a public persona should have any allegations made in public. We all know it's driven by our own interest, fuelling the media etc etc

Logically, the only factor that should forego anonymity in these matters is that of risk to others. There is nothing here in that regard

 

[story]

Do you find it reasonable for a man in his thirties to seek out the youngest girl he can legally have a relationship with and ask her to read Lolita? Because if you think that's fine that pretty much puts you on the creepy nonce cunt list yourself.

Suggesting that a 16 year old reads Lolita isn’t in and of itself problematic. It’s probably a good idea for 16 year old girls to read it actually, to see how this stuff has been lionised and vaulted, to see how it works, etc. It’s a good reference point for girls and young women who are learning to negotiate the patriarchy.

However, in the context of a significantly older man pursuing a sexual relationship with that 16 year old, it’s creepy as fuck.

But the thing that really creeped me out about that story was that when she told him she was a virgin he cradled her, cooed over her, seemed to fetishise her virginity and youth, within the context of their nascent sexual relationship.


ETA
I‘d add that the alleged story about him cramming his dick down her throat “because he wanted to see her mascara run” was also a red flag. Getting kicks from seeing a woman’s mascara running during oral sex is a pretty common kink. Kink must always always always be safe sane and consensual. If it’s not, it’s assault. If he did that, it implies he’s accustomed to taking what he wants without consent.

 

[paul mckenna]

Nowt harmful at all with a 30 something celebrity getting a 16 year old girl out of school so he could shag her. We’d all do it given the chance, eh lads?

Fucking hell.

more moral outrage. My point is, again, that it falls on the legal line so shouldn't be talked in the same breath as actual illegality

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

more moral outrage. My point is, again, that it falls on the legal line so shouldn't be talked in the same breath as actual illegality

Oh just fuck off.

 

[maomao]

more moral outrage. My point is, again, that it falls on the legal line so shouldn't be talked in the same breath as actual illegality

You mean actual illegality like the rape and sexual assaults he's been accused of?

 

[JimW]

He has two young daughters and another in production. I truly feel for them. Not that he would have abused them but the stigma that will never go away unfortunately. What an absolute shit.

I'm a born optimist so you never know. Fatherhood might have changed him. The crimes are unforgivable of course.

That's just his woo spiel isn't it? There's plenty of arsehole fathers about and it sounds like women have still felt the need to warn each other about him recently.

 

[paul mckenna]

You mean actual illegality like the rape and sexual assaults he's been accused of?

I clearly demarked that as a separate topic you donut

 

[Sasaferrato]

Again, all your language is pre-judgmental. Who knows how they met etc etc. I think it's distasteful etc but it's a world apart from real harmful practices

Arranged marriages, child brides etc. There's no possiblility of consensuality here where whole families coerce young women.

Where are the long threads about this

Maybe have a think before posting?