Russell Brand: rape and sexual abuse allegations, grifting and general dodginess - discussion

[maomao]

I clearly demarked that as a separate topic you donut

So we need two threads 'Russell Brand - rapist' and 'Russell Brand - Nonce` and you'll defend him on the nonce one?

 

[story]

I fail to see the logic that a public persona should have any allegations made in public. We all know it's driven by our own interest, fuelling the media etc etc

Logically, the only factor that should forego anonymity in these matters is that of risk to others. There is nothing here in that regard

I think you’re wrong. A person in the public eye has influence and reach. Their public behaviour affects us, our culture. The more famous they are, the more influence they have. People who are influenced by them need to know that there are allegations made against them that, if true, make that person dangerous.

If there are allegations of misconduct (of any kind) coming directly from people outside their private life - in other words people upon whom they have influence of some kind - then other people alongside them, other people who could also be affected by those things, have a right to know.

When politicians tell lies, go to parties during lockdown, buy and sell questions, we expect to be told about it before anything is proven, and rightly so.

If a bloke who is really famous is accused by several woman of behaving in a sexually predatory way, how is it less important that people know about those allegations?

 

[paul mckenna]

So we need two threads 'Russell Brand - rapist' and 'Russell Brand - Nonce` and you'll defend him on the nonce one?

I would defend the definition of legality with regard to the "Nonce" element, absolutely

You linking the 2 to a personality is childlike

 

[story]

I would defend the definition of legality with regard to the "Nonce" element, absolutely

You linking the 2 to a personality is childlike

So…
you’re saying that because he didn’t fuck her when she was under 16 you’re going to stand up and defend his reputation?

 

[Sasaferrato]

paul mckenna


This is a really important part of the issue in my opinion.

If a private citizen is being accused of rapey stuff by the people around him, then it’s a good idea to respect and maintain the anonymity of that citizen especially beyond the parameters of the place in which those allegations are happening. It’s then incumbent on the people with authority to examine and explore those allegations, to see if charges should be laid.

So if a teacher is the target of the allegations, suspend the teacher and investigate but don’t broadcast the allegations. If it’s untrue, it gives them a chance to get back to a normal life.

But if the person is in the public eye, has influence and and audience, those allegations need to be aired more widely. Because if a public person has allegations like this laid against them by people outside their immediate circle, it’s always in the context of their public persona, their public behaviour. As such, silencing the rumours shades into collusion.

The silence around this stuff perpetuates the issue, and further supports rape culture.



This is obviously problematic though. What if a public person gets a bad rep or bad press because they‘re non-conforming or a bit left field. The idiocy about drag artists reading in libraries for instance.

What I’m saying is that RB doesn’t get to claim victim status here. There’s enough noise to support the idea that he’s creepy and inappropriate and problematic and therefore needs to be under scrutiny. He’s not a private person, he’s very public, and as such his behaviour is part of the public domain and needs to be kept under observation. Regardless of anything that results from the current furore.

He’s a whole field of red flags.
Red flags don’t condemn the individual, they alert the people who might be in their sphere of influence.

I watched the documentary. A woman making a public accusation of rape, as one woman did, is wide open to being sued if the accusation is false. If Brand was innocent, writs would be being issued. They don't appear to be. From that, conclusions may be drawn.

 

[paul mckenna]

So…
you’re saying that because he didn’t fuck her when she was under 16 you’re going to stand up and defend his reputation?

Again, not reputation. The act of someone being villified as a "nonce" when they literally don't fit the lawful defintion. There's a line and ignoring it is what breaks down reasoned discussion

 

[Sasaferrato]

Nowt harmful at all with a 30 something celebrity getting a 16 year old girl out of school so he could shag her. We’d all do it given the chance, eh lads?

Fucking hell.

A 31 year old hanging round my 16 year old daughter would have been strongly encouraged not to. A few years age difference is one thing, fifteen years is entirely another. If both parties had been older, fair enough, but a 16 year old is in many ways still a child.

 

[paul mckenna]

I watched the documentary. A woman making a public accusation of rape, as one woman did, is wide open to being sued if the accusation is false. If Brand was innocent, writs would be being issued. They don't appear to be. From that, conclusions may be drawn.

people are ignoring the fact here that i'm explicitly discussing the aspect of relationship with the 16 year old

 

[Raheem]

Again, not reputation. The act of someone being villified as a "nonce" when they literally don't fit the lawful defintion. There's a line and ignoring it is what breaks down reasoned discussion

"Nonce" is not a legal term.

 

[paul mckenna]

A 31 year old hanging round my 16 year old daughter would have been strongly encouraged not to. A few years age difference is one thing, fifteen years is entirely another. If both parties had been older, fair enough, but a 16 year old is in many ways still a child.

It's a good job then we're talking about common law here then and not everyone's daughters

 

[story]

Again, not reputation. The act of someone being villified as a "nonce" when they literally don't fit the lawful defintion. There's a line and ignoring it is what breaks down reasoned discussion

Okay, so you‘re in this little cul de sac saying “whatever else you might say about Russel Brand he’s not a nonce”.

 

[paul mckenna]

Yes. As might every lawyer in the country

 

[story]

Yes. As might every lawyer in the country

Because that’s the issue under discussion here.

 

[paul mckenna]

happy to stand aside now this smaller point has been cleared up

 

[edcraw]

Again, all your language is pre-judgmental. Who knows how they met etc etc. I think it's distasteful etc but it's a world apart from real harmful practices

Arranged marriages, child brides etc. There's no possiblility of consensuality here where whole families coerce young women.

Where are the long threads about this

According to this he approached her in the street, was aware of her age & got her to deceive her parents.

A timeline of sexual assault allegations against Russell Brand

Media personality has denied accusations from four women of assaults between 2006 and 2013

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sasaferrato]

It's a good job then we're talking about common law here then and not everyone's daughters

Tell me, do you find Brand's behaviour in any way acceptable?

 

[Ax^]

did you date a school girl in your 30s Paul

seems an odd point to get work up about when a guy's being called a rapist and a sex offender


but he is not a nonce he waited till 16th birthday

 

[edcraw]

Again, not reputation. The act of someone being villified as a "nonce" when they literally don't fit the lawful defintion. There's a line and ignoring it is what breaks down reasoned discussion

What is the lawful definition of “nonce”? The dictionary one includes child molester which fits here.

 

[Petcha]

A 31 year old hanging round my 16 year old daughter would have been strongly encouraged not to. A few years age difference is one thing, fifteen years is entirely another. If both parties had been older, fair enough, but a 16 year old is in many ways still a child.

I wonder how Russ would react when his daughters turn 16 and if a 30yo starts sniffing around

 

[Raheem]

I wonder how Russ would react when his daughters turn 16 and if a 30yo starts sniffing around

He'd bang on his cell door.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Can I be first the first to start a new urban trend?

FUCK OFF McKENNA.

​

 

[May Kasahara]

An adult who takes a 16yo out of school so he can fuck her is a clear safeguarding risk. I mean, that's as basic as it gets. Anyone working in a school will have covered this on day one during basic safeguarding training and will know that it warrants immediate reporting to the DSL. The definition of child sexual exploitation applies up to the age of 18, it doesn't stop at the legal age of consent.

Quite aside from the fact that it is completely fucking obvious to any normal person that an adult in his 30s who is willing to disrupt a teenager's education so he can get his rocks off doesn't have that teenager's best interests at heart.

 

[May Kasahara]

On the main topic of this thread: I've always found RB utterly repellent, and I'm depressed to have those instincts validated.

 

[editor]

Story. Not accusations.

There wasn't a current Russell Brand story. Now there is.

TBH though I haven't had time to watch the TV programme or read the Article yet.

The keep your uninformed opinions to yourself instead of wasting everyone's time here.

 

[Plumdaff]

An adult who encouraged her to lie to her family and friends and to be very secretive about the relationship.

Someone doesn't have to be under 16 to be groomed and exploited.

 

[t0bytoo]

I watched the documentary. A woman making a public accusation of rape, as one woman did, is wide open to being sued if the accusation is false. If Brand was innocent, writs would be being issued. They don't appear to be. From that, conclusions may be drawn.

Which I agree with. If an organisation is prepared to publish this, then they would have to be extremely confident the story is true.

But, how do we feel about trial by media? Given the police prosecute 5% of rape cases - is this the only court he will face ?

Ugg. The whole thing stinks. What a c***

 

[Raheem]

But, how do we feel about trial by media? Given the police prosecute 5% of rape cases - is this the only court he will face ?

Don't know what he will face, but most rape accusations don't come from multiple people, or come with a starter-pack of evidence compiled by a team of journalists over the course of a year.

 

[8ball]

Some quite intense wagon-circling happening in the YouTube conspirasphere right now…

 

[Mumbles274]

What a grim watch dispatches is. What scum he is

 

[editor]

happy to stand aside now this smaller point has been cleared up

What's your thoughts on this?

2012​

A woman alleges that Brand raped her against a wall at his Los Angeles home in July 2012 after she refused to join him in sexual activity with “a friend” of Brand. She alleges that she told Brand to get off her and that she wanted to leave, but he carried on and briefly blocked the door to prevent her from leaving afterwards.

She told the Sunday Times she was treated at a Rape Treatment Centre that same day, and had therapy treatment there for five months. Records seen by the Sunday Times show she contemplated criminal or civil proceedings but ultimately decided against it.

After the incident, Brand sent her text messages apologising for what happened and describing his behaviour as “crazy and selfish”. It happened the same month that Brand’s divorce from the singer Katy Perry was finalised.