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Russell Brand: rape and sexual abuse allegations, grifting and general dodginess - discussion

RD2003 said:
How else would you explain the appeal?

He sounded like a north Manc. He said the stuff that most people were going about saying. Seriously, I knew may who thought he was a bit of a hero even if they never went to see him.

Didn't Morrisey say summat like 'Manchester in the 1970s was a pretty barbaric place'? He was obviously exaggerating but 'politically correct' it wasn't. Not least because PC hadn't yet properly escaped US academia.
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BINGO!!!
 
RD2003 said:
If Morrisey says racist things now, it doesn't have anything to do with his personal assessment of the Manchester he grew up in.
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Oh it does. He grew up in a Manchester that was stolen from him by town planners, immigrants and do-gooders.
 
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Serge Forward said:
Er... I don't think anyone I knew ever thought that.
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The reasons for people going on coach trips to the Embassy, which they did when I was growing up through to my 20s are complex. You'd certainly not go if you were anti-racist - I didn't - but there were those some who probably went to hear extremes, the full on Manning that as you say you didn't get on the telly. But equally, as you say, he was scum and unambiguously racist. A racist and a career racist. And most of all he was the poster boy for racists at a poisonous time in terms of the rise of the NF and others, to the point of near electoral breakthrough (along with the street violence and racist murders). If they'd had social media in those days, his is the material that racist coppers would have been sharing online. And not surprisingly, I seem to remember got a lot of cops at his club.
 
RD2003 said:
Many of the same people are not there. They've been scattered due to economic decline, and economic regeneration based upon 'gentrification.' Forgotten, largely.
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By "the same people", do you mean "white people"?

Because I think Humberto made it clear they did not mean that.
 
Wilf said:
The reasons for people going on coach trips to the Embassy, which they did when I was growing up through to my 20s are complex. You'd certainly not go if you were anti-racist - I didn't - but there were those some who probably went to hear extremes, the full on Manning that as you say you didn't get on the telly. But equally, as you say, he was scum and unambiguously racist. A racist and a career racist. And most of all he was the poster boy for racists at a poisonous time in terms of the rise of the NF and others, to the point of near electoral breakthrough (along with the street violence and racist murders). If they'd had social media in those days, his is the material that racist coppers would have been sharing online. And not surprisingly, I seem to remember got a lot of cops at his club.
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Yes, but he was a product of times when almost everybody was racist to one degree or another. That included a large part of the labour movement.

That he'd become a poster boy for the far-right was inevitable, but when the BNP tried to spread a rumour that he was appearing at the 'Red, White and Blue'festial thing they used to hold, about 20 years ago he was quoted in the media as saying something along the lines 'Of course I'm not-do you think I'm fucking daft' iirc. And online racists did point out his apparent half-Jewish background.

As I say above, he was all about himself, and racism was a large part of what he did, for obvious reasons and regardless of the consequences. It paid his wages. But the mass of stuff now available for listening/viewing online should give anybody a flavour of the times, and also his opportunism.
 
RD2003 said:
Many of the same people are not there. They've been scattered due to economic decline, and economic regeneration based upon 'gentrification.' Forgotten, largely.
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No this a fact. It's largely about what council estates were for/about. Take the dock workers (I'm specifying Liverpool and Manchester, but similar inustries e'g Soth Wales, North East, Clyde) de unionise them, close the industries and police them.
 
Epona said:
By "the same people", do you mean "white people"?

Because I think Humberto made it clear they did not mean that.
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I mean most of those who used to live in the communities referred to.
 
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Humberto said:
No this a fact. It's largely about what council estates were for/about. Take the dock workers (I'm specifying Liverpool and Manchester, but similar inustries e'g Soth Wales, North East, Clyde) de unionise them, close the industries and police them.
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And then scatter them so they can't do any harm.
 
Raheem said:
Oh it does. He grew up in a Manchester that was stolen from him by town planners, immigrants and do-gooders.
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How does his denigration of 1970s Manchester as 'a barbaric place' suggest he regrets it having been stolen from him by anybody?
 
RD2003 said:
Yes, but he was a product of times when almost everybody was racist to one degree or another. That included a large part of the labour movement.

That he'd become a poster boy for the far-right was inevitable, but when the BNP tried to spread a rumour that he was appearing at the 'Red, White and Blue'festial thing they used to hold, about 20 years ago he was quoted in the media as saying something along the lines 'Of course I'm not-do you think I'm fucking daft' iirc. And online racists did point out his apparent half-Jewish background.

As I say above, he was all about himself, and racism was a large part of what he did, for obvious reasons and regardless of the consequences. It paid his wages. But the mass of stuff now available for listening/viewing online should give anybody a flavour of the times, and also his opportunism.
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Oh, come on, Bernard Manning just doing career building, opportunistic racism? Bernard Manning?

At last, some actual comedy on this thread!
 
Wilf said:
Oh, come on, Bernard Manning just doing career building, opportunistic racism? Bernard Manning?

At last, some actual comedy on this thread!
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Do I have to keep restating stuff? Like you, I never went to the Embassy, and for the same reasons, but I tried to understand those, who were, in large part, north Mancunians just like us, who chose to, or enjoyed BM on telly.

And like it or not, he does have his defenders, who claim that he was basically an act, playing up to his audience and the prejudices of the time, and was a personally honourable man on the whole.

I expect the truth is pretty nuanced, and like you, I don't know 'the ultimate truth.'
 
RD2003 said:
Do I have to keep restating stuff? Like you, I never went to the Embassy, and for the same reasons, but I tried to understand those, who were, in large part, north Mancunians just like us, who chose to, or enjoyed BM on telly.

And like it or not, he does have his defenders, who claim that he was basically an act, playing up to his audience and the prejudices of the time, and was a personally honourable man on the whole.

I expect the truth is pretty nuanced, and like you, I don't know 'the ultimate truth.'
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The "ultimate truth" is that this is a thread about Brand and we don't know why you keep banging on about and defending Bernard Manning!!!
 
Epona said:
The "ultimate truth" is that this is a thread about Brand and we don't know why you keep banging on about Bernard Manning!!!
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Because somebody else brought him into the discussion, and then others joined in.

Anyway, as you were.
 
RD2003 said:
Because somebody else brought him into the discussion, and then others joined in.

Anyway, as you were.
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And you his faithful little soldier kept bringing him up, when the reason why he had been raised in the first place in the context of this conversation was perfectly understandable to most of us, but your continued defence of him was not relevant to the topic (except maybe in terms of how Brand apologists may frame his behaviour 40 years hence)
 
Epona said:
And you his faithful little soldier kept bringing him up, when the reason why he had been raised in the first place in the context of this conversation was perfectly understandable to most of us, but your continued defence of him was not relevant to the topic (except maybe in terms of how Brand apologists may frame his behaviour 40 years hence)
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I haven't defended him but sought to explain him, however unsatisfactorily, and I can't help it if others join in. Nobody had to, and, as I said, it's now as you were.
 
RD2003 said:
Because he couldnt have done his club act on the telly even then.

But we can't escape the fact that, 'uncensored,' he was telling people what they mostly wanted to hear, even if it didn't chime with what they experienced in their lives. Those who laughed at Manning had to get along with the black or Asian colleague who'd just been put working alongside them, and mostly, in my experience, they did.
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It was Irish and Jewish people too.
 
RD2003 said:
Because he couldnt have done his club act on the telly even then.

But we can't escape the fact that, 'uncensored,' he was telling people what they mostly wanted to hear, even if it didn't chime with what they experienced in their lives. Those who laughed at Manning had to get along with the black or Asian colleague who'd just been put working alongside them, and mostly, in my experience, they did.
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Oh fuck off
 
Epona said:
Bernard Manning does not need you to explain him or apologise for him.
The fact you do so betrays a lot about your personal outlook and prejudices IMO.
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Fine. I can't help what you think.

And, ultimately, what you or I think about anything is of no consequence.
 
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