Russell Brand: rape and sexual abuse allegations, grifting and general dodginess - discussion

[cesare]

Search for old joke threads. Rape joke on every thread.

Fucking hell. And yet you're still actively here.

 

[cesare]

There should be a poll on who found rapey culture fine back in the day.

 

[Sweet FA]

a post calling out Brand's behaviour with women and is roundly ignored.

Not ignored; one post did a bit of victim blaming, the other reply told them to shut up about it.


There are so many clips of him clearly putting the lie to 'it was all consensual'; him dropping his trousers and sitting on someone's lap on a BB show; the end of the Liz Hayes interview:

 

[weltweit]

Checking back I am glad to see that my views haven't changed:

 

[bimble]

A quick perusal of that thread shows some current posters who might be embarrassed by their opinion. But there's quite a few posters too who won't be. Interestingly, a couple of those who are people who get pretty much ignored these days.

I'm not somebody who ever liked him. No great insights, I just didn't find him funny and he always sounded perfect for the TV industry - ie an egotistical wanker way up himself, for himself.

Sexy? Well I guess that's ultimately subjective. But really, a bit of eyeliner, tight leather trousers and the ability to manipulate words? Is that all it takes?

I can do the eyeliner. Long words for the sake of looking clever make my tummy borborygmi.

i'd like to think my quality control has improved a bit since then, but yeah early 2000s owning a thesaurus and one of those belts with the metal spikes on, that was about it.

 

[maomao]

Fucking hell. And yet you're still actively here.

I probably contributed to them (I have no idea, I have certainly laughed at some pretty nasty jokes). I'm not trying to call anyone out or start a fight.

 

[Dystopiary]

Re arseholes supporting him, the flip side of that is people like journalist Dorian Lynskey, quick to condemn him when they were willing to back a persistent predator like Nick Cohen for years.

Spoiler: text of tweet

Dorian Lynskey @Dorianlynskey Sep 17
“Why didn’t they come forward earlier?” ask men who refuse to believe multiple detailed allegations, extensively reported, against a man who actually joked about this stuff on stage and on air

Absolute raging hypocrite here.

Women were trying to speak out about Cohen for years - multiple women. He was known as "The Octopus" at the Observer/Guardian and new young female employees would be routinely warned about him. (GNM = Guardian News & Media.)

Spoiler: text of tweets

lucy siegle @lucysiegle Sep 16
When we tried to raise the fact of serial predatory assaults by the Observer columnist he was able to use incredible excuses. According to him, we were motivated by the Kremlin, trans rights through to his own addiction issues. Unfortunately for a long while the GNM seemed...

To prefer to back him than to hear our stories. He was able to negotiate a big cash sum (we got nothing except excruciating stress, hassle and a loss of career opportunities) and persuade a handful of people with standing to publicly back him. Used cloak of cancel culture etc

The editor of The Observer gave a public quote praising him to the newspaper trade body. (I still find this extraordinary). The lack of judgement was distressing and disorienting but I was naive as to how strong that ‘protect the man’ forces are. Even in liberal institutions

After years of women trying to talk about Cohen's sexual abuse, things started to come to a head. Many people in the know - including alleged feminists - continued to throw Lucy Siegle and others under a bus as they promoted Nick Cohen's blog on social media and obsessed over trans people as Siegle bravely kept on speaking out. Then the Good Law fella spoke up:

Spoiler: text of tweet

Jo Maugham @JolyonMaugham 03 Oct 21
Meanwhile, I'd be very happy to hear from women who have worked with Nick whether he is the champion they would choose for women's rights in the workplace. Happy to keep your name confidential, if you prefer

[quote tweet response by] Dorian Lynskey @Dorianlynskey 14:11 03 Oct 21
Perfectly normal behaviour

And it's all perfectly normal liberal media behaviour to act like total hypocrites.

 

[cesare]

I probably contributed to them (I have no idea, I have certainly laughed at some pretty nasty jokes). I'm not trying to call anyone out or start a fight.

But that's exactly what you did, you've done a trawl back exercise and I'm not sure what you're hoping to prove. And you're still doing it, now extended to jokes. I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just wondering why you're doing it.

 

[maomao]

But that's exactly what you did, you've done a trawl back exercise and I'm not sure what you're hoping to prove. And you're still doing it, now extended to jokes. I'm not saying your wrong I'm just wondering why you're doing it.

Introspection.

 

[LDC]

we washed up here in the same year then.

I like to think of it as being shipwrecked bimble...

I mean there's definitely things I've said and done 20 years ago that I would be very critical of now in terms of attitudes, speech and behaviour. It can sometimes just be a bit eye-opening to see it that starkly with the benefit of lots of time passing.

 

[redcogs]

Different times different mores. i have done and said plenty things i now regret. i am suspicious of those who claim otherwise. Best to look in the mirror with a long stare sometimes - not that it changes much, but it helps to face up really.. And be prepared to be contrite.

 

[cesare]

I like to think of it as being shipwrecked bimble...

I mean there's definitely things I've said and done 20 years ago that I would be very critical of now in terms of attitudes, speech and behaviour. It can sometimes just be a bit eye-opening to see it that starkly with the benefit of lots of time passing.

Shipwrecked bimble in the rapey culture that we found ourselves on the strand of - since then we've joined forces to call out the rapey forces of urban to call out the likes of Russell Brand *adjusts etc"

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

The whole 'I always thought he was a cunt' stuff seems pretty pointless tbh. It's not some sign of good judgement or moral purity or whatever. The acknowledgement from some that there were elements about him that they liked is more interesting/relevant imo.

 

[bimble]

Shipwrecked bimble in the rapey culture that we found ourselves on the strand of - since then we've joined forces to call out the rapey forces of urban to call out the likes of Russell Brand *adjusts etc"

not sure what you're on about here ? Maybe you're defending the honour of urban as a righteous and resolutely anti-rapey place. Don't want to get into it really but there's a particular thread i had in mind, that happened soon after i joined, and i just think it'd have gone differently, and better, now.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It is tricky to come to a thread like this and say "<name of public figure>, never rated him much", but there was always something about Brand that gave me the same uncomfortable vibe as people like Savile had. A kind of unspoken inner (psychological) violence that gets dressed up with bonhomie, affability, maybe a bit of menace. I always found Brand's blend of childish-yet-knowing rather unfunny, but also sinister. I didn't know enough about him or pay enough attention to have known about specific things he'd done, mainly because I didn't like him .

One thing I do remember was that voicemail prank on Andrew Sachs, and that did bring me up quite short - the way a kind of silly, whimsical bit of stupidity suddenly morphed into something predatory and emotionally violent, and I definitely didn't pay much attention to him after that.

I know it’s easy to say in hindsight but I never liked him. His humour wasn’t funny and was sub Chubby Brown. It pissed me off when heads turned just because he was a famous figure espousing left wing ideals because we don’t need heroes and whatever he was promising could never be delivered by such a person.

 

[cesare]

not sure what you're on about here ? Maybe you're defending the honour of urban as a righteous and resolutely anti-rapey place. Don't want to get into it really but there's a particular thread i had in mind, that happened soon after i joined, and i just think it'd have gone differently, and better, now.

Ok let's see it and what you've done since then to pursue it?

 

[bimble]

Ok let's see it and what you've done since then to pursue it?

To pursue what? I think you are being a bit weird. Ancient dry cured beef is not what i had in mind for this eve. I think some things have changed for the better between 2015 and now, is all i was saying, there are better ways to start a fight than that.

 

[cesare]

The whole 'I always thought he was a cunt' stuff seems pretty pointless tbh. It's not some sign of good judgement or moral purity or whatever. The acknowledgement from some that there were elements about him that they liked is more interesting/relevant imo.

But the whole thread's swerved that way so that older posters can say "not not me" and more recent posters can say they were always aware but contributed anyway.

 

[editor]

I think it's fair to say that - overall - urban has improved in the last ten years while most of social media has gone in the exact opposite direction. At least that's my take on it.

 

[cesare]

To pursue what? I think you are being a bit weird. Ancient dry cured beef is not what i had in mind for this eve. I think some things have changed for the better between 2015 and now, is all i was saying, there are better ways to start a fight than that.

If you can't want to join in the "old urban was so shit" why did you?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

But the whole thread's swerved that way so that older posters can say "not not me" and more recent posters can say they were always aware but contributed anyway.

Yes quite. I mean if you posted something insightful about Brand and structural misogyny in the entertainment industry in 2013 then great, let's see it. But 'I don't like him I think he's a cunt/wanker/smug' - ok so what?

 

[8ball]

Cathartic bannings before the weekend?

 

[Epona]

Yes quite. I mean if you posted something insightful about Brand and structural misogyny in the entertainment industry in 2013 then great, let's see it. But 'I don't like him I think he's a cunt/wanker/smug' - ok so what?

This ^ - and what oh everyone should have known he was a rapey shitbag and anyone who liked him back in the day should be dragged over the coals for not having the foresight to pre-emptively hate him years ago?

It starts to get a bit ridiculous.

 

[planetgeli]

If you can't want to join in the "old urban was so shit" why did you?

I'm pretty sure I know what thread bimble is on about and why. You're barking up the wrong tree here.

 

[bimble]

I'm pretty sure I know what thread bimble is on about and why. You're barking up the wrong tree here.

i just dredged through the fucking thing, to refresh my memory, and belatedly thanks for this post from then. Kind of says it all.

This thread is like being in a kindergarten playground for pretend lefties. "You smell" "Your mum" etc.

That any of you think you are 'revolutionaries' when you exhibit not even the slightest ability to organise, through your verbal skills, a piss up in a brewery is laughable in the extreme.

Woman violently verbally assaulted in a thread about, erm, women being assaulted.

You couldn't make it up.

Some people's sense of entitlement to this website, as illustrated in this thread, is pretty much the definition of the word 'conservative'.

Circle jerk doesn't begin to describe it.

Carry on shouting.

That thread was a fecking nightmare and I think it would have gone better now, is all i was thinking.

 

[LDC]

If you can't want to join in the "old urban was so shit" why did you?

Huh, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick - or are just being a bit weird here.

 

[jontz01]

What a slimy, rancid, nasty excuse for a human.

 

[AverageJoe]

Sexy? Well I guess that's ultimately subjective. But really, a bit of eyeliner, tight leather trousers and the ability to manipulate words? Is that all it takes?

Worked for Captain Jack Sparrow most of the time.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yes quite. I mean if you posted something insightful about Brand and structural misogyny in the entertainment industry in 2013 then great, let's see it. But 'I don't like him I think he's a cunt/wanker/smug' - ok so what?

I didn’t know him enough. But I did say this amongst left wing love (ashamed of spelling mistakes, and not very insightful):

Russel Brand is Russel's brand. He's an industry. Fucking hell buy his t-shirt and fight Capital. lol.

 

[Cid]

I admit I was rather dismissive of the idea he planned ahead for this situation happening, and disappeared down the rabbit hole to provide him with some protection. but this from the editor's post #728 above, concerning the 'Get Off! Live Comedy' being set-up, and now I am not so sure TBH.

It's just correlation I think... His path into it follows so many others. Mainstream relevance drying up... looking for other avenues. Then Corbyn and that side of the left fully collapsing in 2019, removing that potential path to relevance (and maybe me too and resentment factors in there). Remember also he has kept the same management (who appear to have known some shit, despite the backpedaling) and literary agent. Then 2020 basically all tours gone, the resentment, the time on your hands, the booming right wing ecosystem. I believe he didn't go fully right wing until then, though could be wrong. You know who JP Sears is? That's the path he followed I think.

Of course there are going to be elements of intention and motivation wrapped up in there. It's just a stretch to think of it as something calculated and long term... We're looking at all this with hindsight, there is so much in there that no fucker predicted.