Russell Brand: rape and sexual abuse allegations, grifting and general dodginess - discussion

[girasol]

I doubt he thought every encounter was consensual, he just didn't care if it was and felt entitled to do as he pleased.

That's true, come to think of it, given the apologetic text he sent to one of his victims...

 

[Aladdin]

Well I'm just going to come out and say it: I used to quite fancy him. At the start he was actually quite self-deprecating and a bit camp and very clever. People seem to have forgotten that. Lots of people, mainly men, have been able to pick him out as a wrong 'un in the same way as I can often identlfy a wrong 'un when she's female, and I do understand the whole forehead-slapping 'but why do they fall for it?!' thing. But yeah. Could I identify someone as a potential threat? Probably not tbf. That's why he (and others) are so dangerous.

Yep..I used to think he was a bit of a charmer. But not someone I would trust as far as I could throw him. Having said that ... I don't know if an 18 yr old me would have understood that about him. I would say I could have been taken in by his shite when I was mucb younger. I mean he was pretty entertaining when he was younger...good looking in a kind of Lord Byron way.
He probably was so good at manipulating women that he charmed himself into believing they wanted him.

 

[bimble]

yep me too, thought he was really sexy back then. Did a spiky joke to an ex boyfriend who texted me about it today, me saying how i've always had rubbish taste in men. Joking over the uncomfortableness obvs.

 

[Sue]

He probably was so good at manipulating women that he charmed himself into believing they wanted him.

A lot if them did want him. The problem (one of them anyway) seemed to be that he considered that meant he could do whatever he wanted.

 

[Aladdin]

A lot if them did want him. The problem (one of them anyway) seemed to be that he considered that meant he could do whatever he wanted.

Bastard

 

[maomao]

I just found a simpering 2007 thread started by Dubversion no less about what a literary genius Brand was:

My Booky Wook..

my internal jury is still out on Russell Brand - he can be really irritating but also very funny and capable of some brilliant flights of fantasy and wordplay.. anyway, anyone read the 3 extracts from his 'autobiography' in the Guardian this week? Really really good - very funny, quite...

www.urban75.net

Interestingly Louloubelle (most recently posting as 'justin credible' and who has been very good on similar issues) makes a post calling out Brand's behaviour with women and is roundly ignored.

 

[seeformiles]

I don't really want to get into this discussion, I think it's grim how you just go "ah 16, it's legal, so that's fine then" but I do want to point at that we have actually not made the decision to put the line at 16.
In most cases, 16 is the age of consent but...

If the older person is in a position of authority or responsibility it is 18. This is mainly aimed at positions like school teachers because we don't feel happy about them fucking 6th formers, or at scout leaders, or counsellors or whatever. In law it would be extremely difficult to define a celebrity but I'm pretty sure most of us would agree that celebrities exist in a position of power, authority and privilege over teenagers which would put them in the same moral area as teachers, social workers etc when it comes to relationships with 16-18 year olds, unless that celeb is themselves a teenager... which brand most definitely was not.

There is also the "quirk" of the UK legal system that whilst you can consent to sex at 16, you cannot consent to being filmed/photographed, that age is also set to 18, anyone under 18 being filmed/photographed is child abuse in the eyes of the law... because a 16 year old is still a child.

So "the line" is in fact somewhat blurred, and as I said at the start, it's grim that you want to make it some kind of hard divide between ok and not ok, and can't seemingly see why everyone else thinks it's fucking dodgy for a 30 year old to be dating a 16 year old.

A bit late to this part of the thread but, as someone who worked for a university for 20 years and was an active part of welcoming new students, there is a whole spectrum of maturity among 18 year olds. Some appear worldly wise but many seem to be still mentally children and rather naive. As a college who was big on pastoral care, we made a big effort to look out for these types of student - esp. when there was a second year culture of “Fuck a fresher” and this predatory behaviour was being carried out by 19 year olds.

 

[Mumbles274]

I've always liked Katherine Ryan and I like her even more now

 

[cesare]

I just found a simpering 2007 thread started by Dubversion no less about what a literary genius Brand was:

My Booky Wook..

my internal jury is still out on Russell Brand - he can be really irritating but also very funny and capable of some brilliant flights of fantasy and wordplay.. anyway, anyone read the 3 extracts from his 'autobiography' in the Guardian this week? Really really good - very funny, quite...

www.urban75.net

Interestingly Louloubelle (most recently posting as 'justin credible' and who has been very good on similar issues) makes a post calling out Brand's behaviour with women and is roundly ignored.

Nah, that's hardly a clarion call that's ignored. She describes her friend as histrionic or words to that effect (ETA "neurotic") and does a very half-hearted attempt in warning people. I'm not having a go at her, but I think you're misrepresenting that post.

 

[maomao]

Nah, that's hardly a clarion call that's ignored. She describes her friend as histrionic or words to that effect (ETA "neurotic") and does a very half-hearted attempt in warning people. I'm not having a go at her, but I think you're misrepresenting that post.

Well, not a clarion call maybe though I think that's partly the noughties/old urban culture where male promiscuity was beyond criticism. Maybe I'm still being a bit over the top but both society and urban have had a significant moral shift in those fifteen years.

 

[Humberto]

I've not exactly got my finger on the pulse but isn't Andrew Tate popular with teenage boys?

 

[8ball]

I just found a simpering 2007 thread started by Dubversion no less about what a literary genius Brand was:

My Booky Wook..

my internal jury is still out on Russell Brand - he can be really irritating but also very funny and capable of some brilliant flights of fantasy and wordplay.. anyway, anyone read the 3 extracts from his 'autobiography' in the Guardian this week? Really really good - very funny, quite...

www.urban75.net

Interestingly Louloubelle (most recently posting as 'justin credible' and who has been very good on similar issues) makes a post calling out Brand's behaviour with women and is roundly ignored.

Except that Dub never calls him a literary genius at all (and makes the opposite clear), while Louloubelle’s most damning claim is that he was very “casual on the safe sex front”.

It’s hardly surprising that no one was up in arms.

 

[bimble]

If there's been a 'moral shift' against promiscuity i haven't noticed and also very not sure if that'd be a good thing.

 

[cesare]

Well, not a clarion call maybe though I think that's partly the noughties/old urban culture where male promiscuity was beyond criticism. Maybe I'm still being a bit over the top but both society and urban have had a significant moral shift in those fifteen years.

I'm not sure I remember a time when in "old urban culture" male promiscuity was beyond criticism. But we're not talking male promiscuity here are we (that's his defence "only the male promiscuity") we're talking rapey cunt culture which isn't the same.

 

[Serge Forward]

I've always liked Katherine Ryan and I like her even more now

I saw that Katherine Ryan on "Who do you think you are" (if that's what the family tree programme is called) and wasn't that keen. But kudos to her for having a pop at Russell Brand

 

[LDC]

Well, not a clarion call maybe though I think that's partly the noughties/old urban culture where male promiscuity was beyond criticism. Maybe I'm still being a bit over the top but both society and urban have had a significant moral shift in those fifteen years.

As someone that joined in 2015, and hadn't lurked before that, some of those earlier threads are pretty shockingly grim tbh, shitty attitudes all over the place.

 

[redcogs]

Never taken any interest in scumbag Brand. One of my better decisions.

 

[weltweit]

Personally I never liked him. I thought he was arrogant, self centred, and too up himself, I only watched a couple of his Big Brother spin off show and that was too much.

 

[cesare]

As someone that joined in 2015, and hadn't lurked before that, some of those earlier threads are pretty shockingly grim tbh, shitty attitudes all over the place.

Which ones did you look at? Surprised you joined then stayed in such a shockingly grim place tbh

 

[maomao]

I'm not sure I remember a time when in "old urban culture" male promiscuity was beyond criticism. But we're not talking male promiscuity here are we (that's his defence "only the male promiscuity") we're talking rapey cunt culture which isn't the same.

I'm expressing myself poorly. Or possibly just wrong. Never mind.

 

[Elpenor]

I always disliked him, the fake bohemian act in particular, but I think I have disliked most TV presenters and modern culture since the turn of the century so I don’t think I can claim to have had a lightbulb moment about him when he came along.

 

[editor]

I just found a simpering 2007 thread started by Dubversion no less about what a literary genius Brand was:

My Booky Wook..

my internal jury is still out on Russell Brand - he can be really irritating but also very funny and capable of some brilliant flights of fantasy and wordplay.. anyway, anyone read the 3 extracts from his 'autobiography' in the Guardian this week? Really really good - very funny, quite...

www.urban75.net

Interestingly Louloubelle (most recently posting as 'justin credible' and who has been very good on similar issues) makes a post calling out Brand's behaviour with women and is roundly ignored.

I really don't think there's much to be gained from trawling through decades-old posts about Brand. I can't even remember what I thought of him them - I don't recall ever being a fan - but he's a totally different character now and it's what people think now that matters.

 

[bimble]

That paxman interview was ten years ago now, kind of interesting how that was probably the last time he was on the radar for normal people (not the overly online like us) until now.

 

[LDC]

Which ones did you look at? Surprised you joined then stayed in such a shockingly grim place tbh

I mean some of the older threads that get posted here, when I looked before I joined in late 2014 or thereabouts it was pretty much as it is now, which I think is pretty good. I was meaning I agreed with maomao about there seeming to have been a shift on some attitudes on here over the decades, as some of those early threads I see now and then quoted (like the one a few posts above this) have plenty of horrible attitudes that I don't think would be ignored on here now. But I might be wrong, I haven't spent any time trawling through loads of threads and posts from 20+ years ago. (I also only really look at the politics threads, and have lots of forums on ignore, so there might be a whole world of stuff I just miss...).

 

[maomao]

I really don't think there's much to be gained from trawling through decades-old posts about Brand. I can't even remember what I thought of him them - I don't recall ever being a fan - but he's a totally different character now and it's what people think now that matters.

I wasn't trying to rub anyone's nose in anything and I had to search for what my own opinion had been. But it's literally when he was doing all the stuff we're complaining about. I am against his conspiracy stuff but I'm more against the rape stuff.

 

[cesare]

I'm expressing myself poorly. Or possibly just wrong. Never mind.

From my own POV back in the day, urban never felt "rapey" or "rape condoning" to me.

But now you and LDC bring it up, maybe there was a bad culture here back then. Worth discussing.

 

[planetgeli]

I just found a simpering 2007 thread started by Dubversion no less about what a literary genius Brand was:

My Booky Wook..

my internal jury is still out on Russell Brand - he can be really irritating but also very funny and capable of some brilliant flights of fantasy and wordplay.. anyway, anyone read the 3 extracts from his 'autobiography' in the Guardian this week? Really really good - very funny, quite...

www.urban75.net

Interestingly Louloubelle (most recently posting as 'justin credible' and who has been very good on similar issues) makes a post calling out Brand's behaviour with women and is roundly ignored.

A quick perusal of that thread shows some current posters who might be embarrassed by their opinion. But there's quite a few posters too who won't be. Interestingly, a couple of those who are people who get pretty much ignored these days.

I'm not somebody who ever liked him. No great insights, I just didn't find him funny and he always sounded perfect for the TV industry - ie an egotistical wanker way up himself, for himself.

Sexy? Well I guess that's ultimately subjective. But really, a bit of eyeliner, tight leather trousers and the ability to manipulate words? Is that all it takes?

I can do the eyeliner. Long words for the sake of looking clever make my tummy borborygmi.

 

[maomao]

From my own POV back in the day, urban never felt "rapey" or "rape condoning" to me.

But now you and LDC bring it up, maybe there was a bad culture here back then. Worth discussing.

Search for old joke threads. Rape joke on every thread.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Personally I never liked him. I thought he was arrogant, self centred, and too up himself, I only watched a couple of his Big Brother spin off show and that was too much.

I came to that conclusion after watching him for under 5 minutes, early on during his appearances on TV, and then avoided him ever since.

 

[bimble]

As someone that joined in 2015, and hadn't lurked before that, some of those earlier threads are pretty shockingly grim tbh, shitty attitudes all over the place.

we washed up here in the same year then. And I agree with you, seems to me things have improved, in certain ways.