Rotherham child rape gangs: At least 1400 victims

[BanCunnulingus!]

I think there are 3 main elements to this case:

• The Boys/men why did they do it? >----- Sexually repressive religion

• The victims, why were they chosen? >----- sexually preference,> availability, vulnerability.

• How did they get away with it who are to blame? >------ inadequate social-workers, council-workers and Council officials, incompetent Police, and the Pakistani Community.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Diamond, is that you?

Does he smell of anarcho-capitalism, then?

 

[fucthest8]

I think there are 3 main elements to this case:

• The Boys/men why did they do it? >----- Sexually repressive religion

• The victims, why were they chosen? >----- sexually preference,> availability, vulnerability.

• How did they get away with it who are to blame? >------ inadequate social-workers, council-workers and Council officials, incompetent Police, and the Pakistani Community.

Ta da! No need for anything more, this thread is complete!

 

[BanCunnulingus!]

Basically yes. Any kid deemed vulnerable was targeted. .

Kids is already a choice why not old Ladies?
They chose Females of certain age, young teenagers, not prepubescent child.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I nearly got sucked in to replying to one of the trolls there. But then I remembered that you can simply block people.

I recommend you all give it a try, in the hopes we might get an important thread back.

 

[Lurdan]

Ta da! No need for anything more, this thread is complete!

Oh yus - it's a bit like opening your present on Xmas morning and its yet another pair of unwashed used socks. I definitely preferred the crabs and mermaids version.

 

[BanCunnulingus!]

Ta da! No need for anything more, this thread is complete!

It is not complete, How do you stop it/them?
Pakistan is one of the most sexually backwards countries in the World, they are repressed, if Pakistanis all walked around in the nude or at least it was common and sexually relationships between teenagers were encourage or at least allowed, a huge number of these rapes would never happen.

 

[fucthest8]

I nearly got sucked in to replying to one of the trolls there. But then I remembered that you can simply block people.

I recommend you all give it a try, in the hopes we might get an important thread back.

Sorry, you're right of course, I was enjoying myself on a Friday afternoon is all, apologies. You're right that this is an important thread, if we can get it back on track.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think there are 3 main elements to this case:
The Boys/men why did they do it? >----- Sexually repressive religion

That's an excuse, it isn't a reason.

 

[BanCunnulingus!]

No, it is one of the main reasons.

 

[andysays]

i agree, but it still appears that the girls abused through these organised grooming networks are by and large white. the abuse of Pakistani girls almost undoubtedly occurs but hasn't been found through the uncovering of the circles in Rotherham or Rochdale.

It also appears that the girls abused through these organised grooming networks are by and large in council care, and that those who have done the initial recruitment/procuring are by and large taxi-drivers, but this aspect, and the specific way in which the initial recruitment was done, the way the opportunity was directly provided by the way the council introduced the victims to the perpretrators, is being ignored in preference to choosing to focus on the apparent racial aspect, but I've yet to see any serious suggestion that this might be significant or worthy of examination.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I didn't say I 'own' it, nitwit. What I am suggesting is that societies that lack cohesiveness might not be governed very well and might not be pleasant places to live in. Unless and until you can acknowledge that there is an ecological connection between a people and the soil and that this needs to be respected, we are just going to continue with this trouble and strife.

Ah, Blut und boden. Sehr gut.

It doesn't require a great brain to see that most people ideally wish to live among their own kind - that being, people of similar culture and ethnicity. You think otherwise because you are wedded to an ideological position that sees 'race' as a divisive concept. I am suggesting that this needn't be the case. It is just natural for people to want to be among their own extended family.

A contentious argument that proceeds from a belief or set of beliefs that aren't particularly well-reinforced by historical fact, unless you only look to colonialist data.

 

[quiquaquo]

It is not complete, How do you stop it/them?
Pakistan is one of the most sexually backwards countries in the World, they are repressed, if Pakistanis all walked around in the nude or at least it was common and sexually relationships between teenagers were encourage or at least allowed, a huge number of these rapes would never happen.

Fuck off and die you racist piece of shit.

Mods please crucify this cunt.

 

[Das Uberdog]

I'm sure I can't be the only one who is curious about why the race/ethnicity/whatever you want to call it of victims and perpetrators has become the dominant factor in reports (both media and official) in this case, in a way it doesn't seem to, as far as I can remember, in many other cases.

Maybe I've just forgotten the way in which the Savile/Harris/Clifford/etc cases were reported in similarly race-focussed ways, and you've got similar data from those cases which can enlighten me...

once again - this point is being perennially dealt with over and over again. for starters i am certainly not suggesting that the genetic fact that these men were of 'Asian' descent has anything whatsoever to do with this. what is being said is that the Pakistani community can clearly, statistically be seen to play a hugely disproportionate role in large-scale child grooming cases. how that would relate to me pointing out the 'whiteness' of Saville i don't know, it's a totally different argument. Saville was able to abuse because he had money, power and prestige - all factors which influenced the police and his surrounding retinue.

these taxi drivers in Rotherham have no money, real power or prestige. yet, they got away with a huge-scale activity in which thousands of victims were abused, by many scores and scores of other members of their community. further to this, in every uncovered example of similar grooming gangs the perpetrators have been overwhelmingly Pakistani and the victims overwhelmingly non-muslim/white. i am saying that with the numbers involved in both sides here, and the fact that such cases have been open secrets in these communities for decades (and still continue to be. i expect further Pakistani grooming gangs to be uncovered in numerous other North West towns over the next decade, as the things being said in Rochdale are the same things people say in Bolton, in Blackburn, in Burnley). the men directly involved have come from all sections of the community - many taxi drivers, yes, but also businessmen, regular mosque-goers, many generations.

why no Bangladeshi grooming gangs? why no Arab grooming gangs? why no Hindu grooming gangs? all of these communities are close knit and conservative, and undoubtedly abuse is concealed behind that, but why has it not manifested itself in the grooming gangs as seen in Rochdale, Telford, Rotherham, Derby and Oxford? clearly there is something about the structure and culture of Pakistani communities in areas of the North West and elsewhere which enables these organisations to develop and survive.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It also appears that the girls abused through these organised grooming networks are by and large in council care, and that those who have done the initial recruitment/procuring are by and large taxi-drivers, but this aspect, and the specific way in which the initial recruitment was done, the way the opportunity was directly provided by the way the council introduced the victims to the perpretrators, is being ignored in preference to choosing to focus on the apparent racial aspect, but I've yet to see any serious suggestion that this might be significant or worthy of examination.

Exactly. The colour of these girls' skin doesn't seem to be the issue here at all. They picked on vulnerable girls and picked on them in a very specific way, and the majority (though not all) of those vulnerable girls happened to be white. That's all.

Das Uberdog, you've got this bit wrong. You've been blinded by the race issue in a way that seems to prevent you from seeing why it is that these girls, and not others, were the victims. Opportunity - the overwhelming factor. Race appears to be largely if not entirely irrelevant here.

 

[quiquaquo]

Thank you mods

 

[andysays]

Exactly. The colour of these girls' skin doesn't seem to be the issue here at all. They picked on vulnerable girls and picked on them in a very specific way, and the majority (though not all) of those vulnerable girls happened to be white. That's all...

And I got the impression from something I read (can't remember exactly what, where, when I'm afraid) that they were effectively enabled to do this by the council care services using taxi companies to provide transport for the children in its care. Has anyone else got this impression or have i just imagined it?

Because if it is the case it opens up a whole other aspect which is yet to be examined

 

[Red Cat]

Thank you mods

And if the thread is trolled again, it's easy enough to report to the mods for racism, and ignore.

 

[sojourner]

And I got the impression from something I read (can't remember exactly what, where, when I'm afraid) that they were effectively enabled to do this by the council care services using taxi companies to provide transport for the children in its care. Has anyone else got this impression or have i just imagined it?

Because if it is the case it opens up a whole other aspect which is yet to be examined

No, I think that too. It's in the report - section 8 deals with this area.

 

[andysays]

once again - this point is being perennially dealt with over and over again. for starters i am certainly not suggesting that the genetic fact that these men were of 'Asian' descent has anything whatsoever to do with this. what is being said is that the Pakistani community can clearly, statistically be seen to play a hugely disproportionate role in large-scale child grooming cases. how that would relate to me pointing out the 'whiteness' of Saville i don't know, it's a totally different argument. Saville was able to abuse because he had money, power and prestige - all factors which influenced the police and his surrounding retinue.

these taxi drivers in Rotherham have no money, real power or prestige. yet, they got away with a huge-scale activity in which thousands of victims were abused, by many scores and scores of other members of their community. further to this, in every uncovered example of similar grooming gangs the perpetrators have been overwhelmingly Pakistani and the victims overwhelmingly non-muslim/white. i am saying that with the numbers involved in both sides here, and the fact that such cases have been open secrets in these communities for decades (and still continue to be. i expect further Pakistani grooming gangs to be uncovered in numerous other North West towns over the next decade, as the things being said in Rochdale are the same things people say in Bolton, in Blackburn, in Burnley). the men directly involved have come from all sections of the community - many taxi drivers, yes, but also businessmen, regular mosque-goers, many generations.

why no Bangladeshi grooming gangs? why no Arab grooming gangs? why no Hindu grooming gangs? all of these communities are close knit and conservative, and undoubtedly abuse is concealed behind that, but why has it not manifested itself in the grooming gangs as seen in Rochdale, Telford, Rotherham, Derby and Oxford? clearly there is something about the structure and culture of Pakistani communities in areas of the North West and elsewhere which enables these organisations to develop and survive.

As has already been mentioned by someone on this thread (sorry, I can't remember who), that has a great deal to do with how these "large scale street grooming gangs" are defined.

As I'm sure you're aware, there have long been allegations of large scale establishment paedophile groups, as yet unproven of course, who have a different way of operating (though still favouring vulnerable kids from childrens homes), who I would hazard a guess are largely white/indigenous British/whatever, but whose activities wouldn't be included in the data for "large scale street grooming gangs".

In other words, the way you define your categories has consequences for your findings (even if these are unintended) and so you can easily end up with a correlation which doesn't tell you anything about the actual reasons behind the phenomonon you're looking at.

edited to correct bizarre spelling aberation...

 

[andysays]

No, I think that too. It's in the report - section 8 deals with this area.

Thanks - do you have a link handy?

 

[Lurdan]

No, I think that too. It's in the report - section 8 deals with this area.

I quoted a large chunk of it here
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...east-1400-victims.326868/page-9#post-13362887
and waffled about it a bit here
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ast-1400-victims.326868/page-26#post-13367292

 

[Miss Caphat]

don't think this has much to do with pedophelia other than the fact that people who set out to exploit others sexually will often go after the most vulnerable and open to manipulation etc.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

One of the most depressing aspects of this is the way it shows how children in care are still let down horribly by the system. First they were abused in the homes, then that came out and hopefully is no longer such an issue, but now we find that they are instead being effectively sent out to be abused outside the homes. It's very very depressing.

 

[andysays]

I quoted a large chunk of it here
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...east-1400-victims.326868/page-9#post-13362887
and waffled about it a bit here
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ast-1400-victims.326868/page-26#post-13367292

Thanks for that - good to see I didn't imagine it. Here's one of the bits you quoted:

8.22 - A further issue of safeguarding concerned those taxi firms which had a contract with the Council to transport some of the most vulnerable children to various resources within the authority. Some of the Council's difficulty was that they did not always have the drivers' names when allegations were made. Nor did they have a list of the drivers who transported children as part of the Council contract.

If this is the case, the the Council was fundamentally remiss in its duty of care.

I've worked in the past with and for organisations who have a duty of care over vulnerable people, and the idea that they would simply hand over children to unnamed taxi drivers is, in itself, unforgivable.

I suggest that senior managers within the Rotherham Children's Dept need to be hauled over the fucking coals for that alone, far less what subsequently happened, but it's really much easier to focus on the supposed racial aspects of this than face the fact that mainstream British culture apparently doesn't give enough of a shit about vulnerable kids to make sure they're not sent off to be abused through taxi companies tasked with transporting them safely.

 

[Lurdan]

The immediate problem being - are they still in post? Are the records which fail to record the names of drivers any better at identifying who took decisions ?

OFSTED announced they are going in (yesterday I think?) and I doubt this will be any kind of light touch exercise.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, that's my evidence. Got any to contradict it?

I don't need any evidence to contradict it, because your "evidence" isn't evidence - it isn't data - it's an expressed opinion that's unsubstantiated by anything else in the documentary.

 

[ViolentPanda]

.....plenty of people in Rotherham did know this was going on.....looking at a crime spanning 16 yrs and hundreds of victims the calls are obviously aimed at friends, aquaintences and family members of people involved who know or suspect something was ( ....& undoubtedly still is.... ) happening, not the actual victims as I'm sure you realise perfectly well...

You appear to be eliding any role for coercion of those "friends, aquaintences [sic] and family members" - coercion that the Jay Report actively found took place - in the so-called "silence". I realise that proferring a narrative of quiet complicity is appealing, especially when attempting to analyse the social dynamics behind what has happened is so much more complex, and doesn't present you with an easily-recognisable and attackable culprit, but that doesn't mean that succumbing to the easy way of looking at the situation is at all worthy.

 

[andysays]

The immediate problem being - are they still in post? Are the records which fail to record the names of drivers any better at identifying who took decisions ?

OFSTED announced they are going in (yesterday I think?) and I doubt this will be any kind of light touch exercise.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see. Call me cynical, but I really don't feel confident that much more than "lessons learned, new procedures already put in place" will come out of it.

Go on, OFSTED, prove me wrong

ETA: I consider those responsible are not those who didn't write down the name of the driver when booking a taxi, but those in charge in didn't ensure that there were rigorous procedures in place to make sure that info was collected (and that those drivers had had enhanced CRB checks etc)and didn't have a regular and foolproof mechanism to see that those procedures were properly followed.

Ultimately, if this wasn't done, then the head of Rotherham Childrens' Services (or whatever it's called) should be held responsible. I assume there is a record of that person's name somewhere...

 

[Lurdan]

I understand what you're saying but even Child Protection services less hopeless than Rotherhams has been are operating in a situation of underfunding and of constantly choosing between impossible alternatives. They could have been designed to fail hostile inspection and I don't see that the broader politics of this offers them any protection. Entirely the opposite in fact. But we shall see, or not.