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all this tells us is what anyone who reads the newspapers already knows, that judges have an unfortunately regular habit of accepting after the fact justifications for why anyone other than the rapist was responsible for the rape.
Rotherham child rape gangs: At least 1400 victims
- Thread starter Ole
- Start date
all this tells us is what anyone who reads the newspapers already knows, that judges have an unfortunately regular habit of accepting after the fact justifications for why anyone other than the rapist was responsible for the rape.
I think I have mentioned earlier that a close friend (who incidentally or not has a large multi-cultural family of all races, etc) is spitting blood over this, she was banned from fostering after raising the issues with adult services, many of her foster children were informing her of these gangs of british/Pakistani men abusing them and their peers. She does feel vindicated now, but says she would rather have been listened to then.
btw local UKIP, have described these events as a 'gift to them'
classy...
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Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
yes you're an idiot. in one restricted sense yes of course 'rape is rape' but in another far more accurate sense it is utterly stupid to categorise every crime designated as rape as the same exact event. pretty much the entire 3rd wave feminist movement take the fact that rape can occur even when not intended to be rape by the rapist - there are fucking thousands of memes and cartoons and videos devoted to increasing the layers of emotional complexity in entering into sexual relationships... campaigns which seek to educate people on what is and what is not rape - all based around this pretty simple and obvious tenet. the main point of this is, by doing so they are actually casting the net out wider in what can be seen as rape, increasing society's intolerance for abusive behaviour.
you, and some others, tried to take a comment from Grandma Death which in content was anti-rape and you opportunistically (or stupidly, it's increasingly hard to tell) tried to turn that into an accusation of 'rape apologism' by focussing on some essentially irrelevant wording and casting out aspersions based on that. it's a disgusting way to conduct yourself quite frankly, and especially in the context of destroying an actually important discussion which you claim to care about.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
no because in no way was it a white community which enabled him and his gang to get away with their crimes, it was a bunch of self-selected paedophiles. in Rochdale and Rotherham the tacit knowledge and acceptance of an entire community gave cover to these gangs.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Did it? What evidence are you using here to suggest that knowledge of this was widespread? What do you know that we don't?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's all too easy to scapegoat the 'Pakistani community'. But as we're seeing, the failure, willful ignorance and collusion went way beyond said community. It was a failure of British systems and British people that allowed this to happen on this scale.
bmd
Island in the stream.
What a load of offensive shite. You can't know what was in the mind of the entire community. Are you speaking for the victims of these paedophiles who were also from that community? They gave their acceptance to being raped did they?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
this doesn't necessarily account for Rotheram, but in Rochdale the testimony of the girls suggests that the numbers of men who 'used' them went far beyond the dozen or so charged. one girl's testimony pointed to 20 men in one night, lined up and queued outside the door waiting their turn. this kind of thing was happening on a nightly basis. from their testimony scores of men were involved in this racket, from across the entire community.
that, on top of the fact that as i can personally attest, the community in Rochdale have known what was going on for years and yes - some of that was suppressed on by labelling it a racist myth. everybody in these areas has had some idea of what has been going on for years, but nothing was said or done. imo the reason has to be the tight knit nature of the community, combined with a cultural idea that the girls were whores anyway (as well as the attitudes of authorities) which allowed it to continue for so long.
Lurdan
old wave
I get that you're a 'post in haste, repent at leisure' kind of guy but I'd invite you to reread what you've written here. Unless you have some information about this which you've chosen not to share with us this looks very much as if you are projecting your own fantasies onto the wider Pakistani community. You might want to consider how that could be misconstrued as some form of racism.
ETA :
Forget it - I've just seen your follow up. Interesting political trajectory you appear to be on.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Assuming this is correct and scores of men were involved, what does that say about knowledge in the wider community? I would guess that even the wives, parents, sisters, brothers, neighbours of many of the men involved didn't know, let alone people unconnected to them.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
the victims of abuse within the community weren't involved in these particular grooming rackets. often they are abused within the 'legitimate' confines of Pakistani cultural traditions (arranged/forced marriage, patriarchal physical abuse, instinctive distrust of female testimony against family members etc). the majority of the victims of these grooming gangs were white, with a significant number from care homes.
bmd
Island in the stream.
Do you know of any drug dealing that goes on in your community? Burglaries? Muggings? What are you doing about them? It's your fault they're still ongoing, clearly.
Everyone didn't know. But the Police did and we pay them to protect us and they didn't. Blaming the entire community for a criminal conspiracy run by violent men is fucking unbelievable.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
burglaries don't continue in one long session for 12 years
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
bmd
Island in the stream.
Eh? Neither did these rapes. You need to have a word with yourself, you are coming across as blaming these communities and it actually sounds like you're saying that it is specifically Pakistani communities that collude with these paedophiles. That's really offensive.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
heaven forefend i ever offend somebody. if it's not a Pakistani community issue then why have 53 of 56 convictions for grooming gang offences been Muslim and of them the vast bulk Pakistani since 1997? why are all of the gangs that are uncovered consistently from the Pakistani (and not even other varieties of Islamic) communities? why are these kind of large scale grooming gangs a particularly Pakistani community issue? even taking into account Lurdan's legitimate criticism of the CEOP report, why do specifically Pakistanis constitute such a large percentage of known grooming offences whilst making up only 1.9% of the population?
krink
I'll do it this afternoon
The whole point of the report is that people did know and did say something and did try to do something. people from all walks of life in Rotherham spoke out and reported and tried to help but the people who could and should have sorted this out didn't give a fuck.
'communities did this and communities didn't do that'. Read the fucking report.
'communities did this and communities didn't do that'. Read the fucking report.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
it's just blindness, total stubborn refusal to see what's under your nose in a grand geopolitical battle squaring off 'minorities' against the 'right wing'... as though these are historically immutable categories and the strength of one will always be measured directly by the weakness of the other. it's political cynicism which stops you being able to see the clear issue at play here and in the meantime real existing race relations in the areas where these things are going on are being left totally undealt with - and it will have truly tragic consequences in the not too distant future.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That's the real fucking unforgivable tragedy of if. And why this is a British problem, not a 'Pakistani community' problem. Everyone was let down by the authorities on this, not least the 'Pakistani community'.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Real existing crimes were left totally undealt with. That's the point, isn't it? That's the point at which the authorities let everyone down.
You're sounding like Enoch now.
And you know this how?
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
...these crimes aren't even about rape in any conventional sense...this was basically enslavement...deliberate sustained brutalisation and terror - not even just of the victims but their families aswell - designed at the total psychological destruction of another human-being..
..how anyone can read about this sheer evil and desperatley start trying to diminish it by aload of irrelevant "whataboutery" and whose-rape-is-worse occupies a radically different moral planet aafaic....
..how anyone can read about this sheer evil and desperatley start trying to diminish it by aload of irrelevant "whataboutery" and whose-rape-is-worse occupies a radically different moral planet aafaic....
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
...this is a thread about the Rotherham grooming case...what exactly did you think peple were going to discuss on it....?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
that's certainly not what i'm doing if that post is directed at me
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
out of curiosity could you name a bunch of paedophiles who weren't self-selected?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Nobody's done that. We got into a stupid derail, that's all. It happens here.
Ah, the witch hunts are on for anyone who doesn't agree with the line.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
If you hear any further please let us know. Very interesting.
you have an interesting take on witch hunts.
bmd
Island in the stream.
The point is that criminals from those communities found a way to exploit these women. If you read the report it says very clearly that gangs from other ethnicities were also involved. White male gangs are known as paedophile rings for some reason but they were also operating within the UK at the same time but no one is asking why the white community, or whatever, didn't act.
Please be clear, what line is that?
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