Roosh V, Pro-Rape Pick Up Artist, Announces Worldwide 'Tribal Meetings'

[pengaleng]

This is quite a good piece on Warren Farrell, who could be considered one of the early founders, as well as the modern groups: Mad Men: Inside the Men's Rights Movement—and the Army of Misogynists and Trolls It Spawned | Mother Jones

too long for me to read atm, have it open on a tab for later

 

[phildwyer]

Apart from anything else, the idea phil & Roosh keep doggedly pushing, that "more young men than ever before" are now experiencing involuntary celibacy in the modern West is just DEMONSTRABLY NOT TRUE. all surveys about sexual activity, frequency and partner numbers among teenagers and young people prove this even if we're just talking about the current situation.

And do they seriously believe that more young men today are getting no sex than in the Victorian era? than in slavery times? than in ancient Egypt? than in medieval knightly Europe? than in caste-ridden Rajasthan? It's not just ahistorical, it's not just factually incorrect, it's not just laughably silly - it's a direct inversion of the actual truth - namely that MORE YOUNG MEN THAN EVER in the modern West are having sex, outside the bounds of marriage, than ever before. And that freedom and EXPANSION of sexual opportunity for young men is at root a (beautiful and positive) upshot of the previously very rare achievements of feminism - women being able to earn their own livings, therefore divorce sexual choice from economic necessity more, and therefore not being ashamed of being 'ruined' for marriage. If I were a young man today I'd be thanking dog for feminism as the thing which had most improved my chances of getting any. Truly the MRAs live in a looking-glass world.

The point is that the opportunities of which you speak are not extended to all young men.

It is true that in the past, young men in general had less sex before marriage than they do today. But it also true that in the past almost every young man could find a wife, and could expect to stay married for life. That isn't true today, at least if the emergence of Roosh and company is any evidence, which it surely is.

Another interesting thing is the anti-white racism expressed on many of these "incel" forums. Lots of Asian men, in particular, moaning that "their" (sic) women no longer consider them worthy sexual partners. That's also a new phenomenon that would have been completely impossible a generation ago.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

too long for me to read atm, have it open on a tab for later

I found it when I was trying to find that piece you were talking about earlier, about Mad Men and MRAs... didn't manage to get there but I found that instead.

SPOILER: his wife left him and he turned from a campaigner against gender stereotypes to a misogynist

 

[8den]

A generation ago they didn't have an Internet forum to complain on.

 

[phildwyer]

This is quite a good piece on Warren Farrell, who could be considered one of the early founders, as well as the modern groups: Mad Men: Inside the Men's Rights Movement—and the Army of Misogynists and Trolls It Spawned | Mother Jones

John Lennon eh? I could have guessed that one.

 

[pengaleng]

A generation ago they didn't have an Internet forum to complain on.

yep partly to blame for the upsurge in pissed off men crying into their hand shandy

 

[trabuquera]

very slowly for the hard of thinking, phil:

"in the past almost every young man could find a wife" - no, they could not: because elite men bought up elite women and 'rented' the rest, leaving a vast underclass of slaves / working class / lower caste men unable to afford a wife.

"… and could expect to stay married for life" - no, they could not: because rates of maternal mortality meant being widowed and remarried were extremely high.

"if the emergence of Roosh and co is any evidence" - it's evidence of nothing except itself, namely, that new tech allows maladjusted loners to rally, form an echo-chamber which turns their ideas even more rancid, and gain disproportionate attention for them.

 

[pengaleng]

fantasy about how good it was in the old days, nostalgic thinking

 

[Bernie Gunther]

fantasy about how good it was in the old days, nostalgic thinking

I have to think though, that it's also about these guys having some pretty weird fantasies about how things are right now too.

Hence all the conspiraloonery they go in for about 'cultural marxism' denying them their 'due'.

 

[pengaleng]

I have to think though, that it's also about these guys having some pretty weird fantasies about how things are right now too.

well yes they are thinking about now, but how do they form the opinions they have, it takes many forms, maybe their mum cheated on their dad, maybe they were rejected, maybe they have low self esteem, maybe media has sent the message that if you have money women will fall on your dick, but you cant exclude history from it, the way history is being presented in a way which fetishises harassment and misogyny

and it's like the work hard and get a good job lie, theres if you're charming, say the right things, etc then women will love it, it's not the case is it no wonder theres butthurt, people feel entitled to many things whether it's jobs, money, housing, it's from early shit, its from what you learnt as a kid

 

[toggle]

Some more red pill philosophy:

Women in Love

"Women are utterly incapable of loving a man in the way that a man expects to be loved."

so he wants a perfect partner who does exactly what he wants all the time and is perfect, so he can idealise her, and she should worship him for that. cause he's a nice guy. and it's clearly women's fault they aren't lining up to worship blokes like him.

the problem isn't women sweetie, it's your expectations.

 

[phildwyer]

"in the past almost every young man could find a wife" - no, they could not: because elite men bought up elite women and 'rented' the rest, leaving a vast underclass of slaves / working class / lower caste men unable to afford a wife.

FACT: the marriage rate today is the lowest in recorded history.

"… and could expect to stay married for life" - no, they could not: because rates of maternal mortality meant being widowed and remarried were extremely high.

FACT: the divorce rate over the last century is ten times what it was in the previous century.

"if the emergence of Roosh and co is any evidence" - it's evidence of nothing except itself

OPINION: nothing is "evidence of nothing except itself." Everything is caused by something.

QUESTION: what is the cause of Roosh?

 

[bluescreen]

Where do they get the idea that any of it is 'their due'?

 

[toggle]

The point is that the opportunities of which you speak are not extended to all young men.

so what is your solution to this great problem of young men going crazy because they think they are entitled to sex?

 

[pengaleng]

women have more freedom now and men don't like it, shocking, shows them up

 

[cesare]

Marriage is going out of fashion shocker. Marriage =/= available sex.

phildwyer

 

[toggle]

FACT: the divorce rate over the last century is ten times what it was in the previous century.

and when divorce was difficult and expensive to get, people didn't bother divorcing. do you believe this means that they all stuck in those failing relationships?

 

[pengaleng]

so what is your solution to this great problem of young men going crazy because they think they are entitled to sex?

oh thats being sorted, the liberal lot with their degrees and easy lives are campaigning for legal sex work, men are calling themselves feminists, women seem to be lapping it up like theres shit in the water

 

[bluescreen]

FACT: the marriage rate today is the lowest in recorded history?

Irrelevant. There is far less stigma attached to extramarital sex in the west than there has been for generations. Many couples bond and have children without marrying, something almost unthinkable a couple of generations ago.

 

[phildwyer]

'cultural marxism'

They do have a valid point about "cultural Marxism" though. The "long march through the institutions," Gramsci and them. There really was a serious conspiracy to subvert Western cultural norms as an alternative to (or even a means of facilitating) political revolution.

 

[camouflage]

women have more freedom now and men don't like it, shocking, shows them up

 

[Bernie Gunther]

It's like they're confused about male subjectivity and how to do it 'properly' and having some sort of collaborative fantasy, in a female-hostile online environment, built out of all kinds of stuff (including various toxic crap) about how things are and/or were and/or should be.

Then they're finding their reality falls short of that and they're making up stories together that blame others for why that is, then some are acting on those stories.

 

[pengaleng]

what? got a problem? wanna say something?

 

[phildwyer]

so what is your solution to this great problem of young men going crazy because they think they are entitled to sex?

Personally I'd lock 'em up. They look dangerous.

 

[pengaleng]

Personally I'd lock 'em up. They look dangerous.

finally something we all can agree on

 

[camouflage]

what? got a problem? wanna say something?

I didn't realise I don't like women having freedom, but thanks for letting me know. I'll tell the others.

 

[bluescreen]

Personally I'd lock 'em up. They look dangerous.

On what grounds?
ETA, sorry, you were being sarcastic!

 

[pengaleng]

Marriage is going out of fashion shocker. Marriage =/= available sex.

this thinking is really dangerous, idk, do many of these idiots equate getting a wife with waking up to a bj every day?

 

[pengaleng]

I didn't realise I don't like women having freedom, but thanks for letting me know. I'll tell the others.

wtf are you talking about? theres clouds in my coffee

 

[phildwyer]

On what grounds?
ETA, sorry, you were being sarcastic!

Not entirely. I really do think some of them are dangerous. Some of them invoke Sodini and Rodgers as heroes.