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Rishi Sunak’s time is up!

Almost every parent gives what they can. Sunak had no say in where his parents sent him to school. It's not fair to hang all these negative stereotypes on him because his parents did what they thought was best for their child. There's enough to critique him for without slating him for things he had no control of - like what family he was born into.


It is not the child's fault, it isn't really the parent's fault.

Why on earth should a better education, one that opens doors to the top jobs that are closed unless you go through it, be available? Can t possibly produce the best and brightest to run our country? The past few years have shown that to be the sham that it is.

Germany; there are such things as private schools, they are used by military folk and others who can't be there for their kids. Everyone else goes to state school. Rich kids don't hang out with 'neds' - don't tell anyone...

In the UK we have got to such a point that you can't progress unless you went to one of these schools. This is just fucking bonkers and we are seeing the shite rising to the top.

Nothing will change though, cos those in charge are all now from that world and mindset and their kids will be.
 
I can hear truss saying that. Try telling that to pupils going to a comprehensive system where they share one book to 30 pupils, not able to concentrate because of hunger etc. Strive all you like, if ya poor,ya going to get fucked over by the likes of sunak.
It’s not an even playing field for sure. But why do you think that Chinese, Asian and Black children at the very same comprehensive schools are entering higher education at much higher percentages?
 
Quite a lot of urbans were espousing similar positions as Badenoch a while ago, whilst half the forum looked away and LGBTIQ experiences got marginalised to a few threads out of sight.

The threads were sidelined after a few major blow-ups, as you know.

Regardless, interesting to see that Sunak is planning to go hard on the “anti-woke” line. This could be an issue for those who were hoping for a dull, managerial type after the recent populist histrionics.
 
In what way? Was he was working in a hedge fund at that time? How did he make millions whilst also having the power to crash the economy?
He played a direct part in crashing the economy and made millions doing it.

Rishi Sunak was part of a small team of hedge fund bosses who shared nearly £100m after an audacious stock market bet that lit the touchpaper on the 2008 financial crisis.

The new chancellor was a partner at the hedge fund TCI when it launched an activist campaign against the Dutch bank ABN Amro in 2007, resulting in its sale to the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS).

The deal loaded RBS, at the time led by Sir Fred Goodwin, who was stripped of his knighthood in 2012, with crippling debt and led to a £45.5bn government bailout.

Sunak’s time at TCI between 2006 and 2009 made him a multimillionaire in his mid-twenties

New chancellor Rishi Sunak cashed in on fund that helped break banks

And now he's going to lecture us about the need for 'austerity'.
 
But why do you think that Chinese, Asian and Black children at the very same comprehensive schools are entering higher education at much higher percentages?
Interested to know what factors you’d identify.
One established causal factor is the, above average, improvement in attainment of schools in a Greater London and some other metropolitan areas. Our kids are not all at the very same comprehensive schools.
 
I guess he’s being held in reserve for next week, there’s likely to be a few cabinet positions vacant by then

Now that they can sack them and bring them right back, there’s no way they can ever run out of people.

It’s quite a masterstroke, really.
 
Interested to know what factors you’d identify.
One established causal factor is the, above average, improvement in attainment of schools in a Greater London and some other metropolitan areas. Our kids are not all at the very same comprehensive schools.
Yes that’s a really good point. My eldest lad does IT sales now and he says it’s noticeable how much more money the London schools have. Big advantage for London. Their kids also get free transport (or near as), free music lessons, free museums etc.

I mean good for them I’m sure they all deserve it and why not. Be nice to see it in the north tho, our kids have less opportunity if they are poor.

Re: other factors. I’m afraid that by far the biggest and most significant influence on a child is their parents. Their parents aspirations, discipline, home structure, and beyond that a supportive community and culture around the family.

Some white communities have lost that. That isn’t simply ‘the fault’ of the Tories or Margaret Thatcher, it’s much more complex than that, altho deindustrialisation will have played a part as will the decline in religion. Would be interesting to talk about especially with anyone who knows about history.
 
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The people working hardest in our society I'd say are people like cleaners with two or three jobs. How much money your parents have makes more of a difference.
I was talking about school. But yes in work absolutely, those at the bottom often work much much harder than those at the top (don’t be at the bottom is the message there). Altho ime those earning a lot tend to work extremely hard too. Nice middle is probably the sweet spot!

A lot of kids work extremely hard at school, it’s impressive. Mine, not so much 😆 but definitely some. It’s not all how much you work of course, there’s intelligence and natural aptitude, but a lot is discipline too and that starts and is supported at home.

How much money your parents earn really does make a difference too of course. My kids school is absolutely shocking. My youngest (who is quite academic) has had to teach himself an entire A level in CS as he hasn’t had a teacher the entire time (he’s now in year 13)- that’s a huge disadvantage he’s having to overcome. Lots of factors in play.
 
Across the board- and in working class communities- ethnic minority students out perform white students with respect to academic achievement. Your parents aspiration for you matters. How hard you work makes a difference. Who knew.
One theory I have about this is that British families (or at least families who have been settled here for several generations) are less likely to directly connect success in life with academic success at gcse level, because they will have lived experience of people making a living (trades etc.), and even being succesful (small businesses etc.), without having 'done well' at school.
 
Everyone knows (and statistics bear it out) that immigrant parents- and ethic minorities generally- place enormous importance on education and bettering yourself. Look at this chart:
View attachment 348883
From: Entry rates into higher education

I think that’s admirable. He, on the back of his family, has done well. Good for him.

It doesn’t necessarily follow that poor people ‘deserve’ to be poor. The social, political, cultural, and personal pressures on them have been different. We are all influenced but not determined by our upbringing.
oh yeah, there's interesting stuff to ponder in that, my post was just about the way you (and him, and the media) frame it as 'look at how well this immigrant family have done by grasping the opportunity that we to our credit so generously gave them'. And I wonder how many generations you have to be here before someone born in Southampton like he was gets to be seen as British rather than as an immigrant who done good.
 
Everyone knows (and statistics bear it out) that immigrant parents- and ethic minorities generally- place enormous importance on education and bettering yourself. Look at this chart:
View attachment 348883
From: Entry rates into higher education

It’s quite a focus of a particular strata of society to see entry into higher education as being a metric of “success”. It’s worth asking who defined that metric, why and how did they convince people to place their focus on it? Does life actually end at 21 when their degree is over? No. So what happens next to all those students? Are we seeing a similar increase in ethnic minority working class presence in positions of power in businesses, politics, academic institutions, news institutions, medical establishments and institutions of capital? Not just as (well paid) workers, but those making material decisions over the lives of others? I’ll save you time: not so much. Institutional power remains in the hands of wealthy families passing down that power through generations. If anything, it is concentrating.
 
Everyone knows (and statistics bear it out) that immigrant parents- and ethic minorities generally- place enormous importance on education and bettering yourself. Look at this chart:
View attachment 348883
From: Entry rates into higher education

I think that’s admirable. He, on the back of his family, has done well. Good for him.

It doesn’t necessarily follow that poor people ‘deserve’ to be poor. The social, political, cultural, and personal pressures on them have been different. We are all influenced but not determined by our upbringing.
You're placing a good deal of weight on that chart which I don't think it will bear and making assumptions your chart doesn't support, eg that chart says nothing about immigrants. And very little about ethnic minorities - you’re attributing causes there which the stats don't say anything about. And gaining a place in higher education doesn't guarantee the outcome, or indeed that there will be a degree in 3-5 years. That chart is indeed a pretty picture but doesn't support, doesnt say anything about, your claims about parents.
 
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Yes that’s a really good point. My eldest lad does IT sales now and he says it’s noticeable how much more money the London schools have. Big advantage for London. Their kids also get free transport (or near as), free music lessons, free museums etc.

I mean good for them I’m sure they all deserve it and why not. Be nice to see it in the north tho, our kids have less opportunity if they are poor.

Re: other factors. I’m afraid that by far the biggest and most significant influence on a child is their parents. Their parents aspirations, discipline, home structure, and beyond that a supportive community and culture around the family.

Some white communities have lost that. That isn’t simply ‘the fault’ of the Tories or Margaret Thatcher, it’s much more complex than that, altho deindustrialisation will have played a part as will the decline in religion. Would be interesting to talk about especially with anyone who knows about history.
I think the graph you shared that kicked off this mini-education discussion might need a little more examination, tbh. The weasel words there are "state schools". For HE stats like this the Universities, particularly the most exclusive ones for their own purposes, like to shine the best light on "state school" stats. They love nothing better than kids who have been put through privileged, private education from prep to GCSE who then sit their A levels at a state (often selective) school. They're classed as "state school" kids because of that L3 experience. After that they also love the state grammar school kids who make up way above their 5% national figure in the most exclusive HE intakes.

So we have to be wary of figures that show "state school" classification without any qualification and without any indication of socio-economic background. Even the HE stats that do attempt to factor in socio-economic data (deprivation) do so on the basis of mean figures for geographic units, not the kids themselves.

I think this chat started by looking at how Sunak's moderately wealthy, middle class parents had bought him a privileged education and it seems that such an ability and determination applies to many in immigrant demographics. This shouldn't really be a surprise as international immigrants do always represent sub-sets of their sending populations; by definition an immigrant must have the determination to seek a better life, be open-minded to making that in a distant place, have the ambition and guts to break from what they know and, in many cases, the economic where-with-all to make the move.

None of which changes my view that private schools and grammar schools should be banned.
 
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