riots in paris banlieu...

[guinnessdrinker]

Earlier in the thread there was a discussion about the word "racaille" - the word "rabble" being used as the English translation. Would the popular word "chavs" often used by the British press be a good modern translation of the word.

this argument about the translation of the word racaille is going crazy. some bloke on channel 4 tried to divert the interview on the translation of that word does it really matter?

 

[In Bloom]

See the difference between the OP and your reply?

My point was that its a fucking stupid thing to say. As if anybody torches cars so they can "see their neighbourhood on the telly". Jesus tittyfucking Christ

 

[kyser_soze]

My point was that its a fucking stupid thing to say. As if anybody torches cars so they can "see their neighbourhood on the telly". Jesus tittyfucking Christ

How do you know that? YOU might not do that, but that's not saying no-one else would.

I mean FFS, people shove fireworks up their arses to get on 'stupid moments caught on camera' style TV programmes, this is the live action equivalent really.

 

[tobyjug]

this argument about the translation of the word racaille is going crazy. some bloke on channel 4 tried to divert the interview on the translation of that word does it really matter?

I don't see any argument, over in Brittany I have a large old English/French dictionary I purchased at a Vide Grenier, (rummage sale) which stated racaille means rabble. (The word was in used in French newspapers whilst I was there when the riots kicked off) I also have several new and brand new English/French dictionaries here in Britain and they call translate racaille as rabble.
Scum is rebut as in the scum of the Earth= Le rebut de genre humain.

 

[Giles]

There are plenty of people out there who would set stuff on fire just to see their town mentioned on TV.

Years ago, when their were major riots in big cities in the UK, over the next few days, there were smaller disturbances in a variety of different towns, obviously inspired by the local scum seeing it on telly and wanting a bit for themselves.

A bit of excitement, a thrill, a fight, notoriety, a chance to loot some local shops, whatever......

Not much to do with whatever the original grievance was about, in a totally different town.

Giles..

 

[Lea]

My point was that its a fucking stupid thing to say. As if anybody torches cars so they can "see their neighbourhood on the telly". Jesus tittyfucking Christ

Apparently they do. Why else would a 9 year old be out on the street torching cars? For a greater political cause? I hear that these pre-pubescent kids are having competitions in the street as to how many cars they can torch, keeping tabs via mobile phone text.

 

[Lea]

this argument about the translation of the word racaille is going crazy. some bloke on channel 4 tried to divert the interview on the translation of that word does it really matter?

Not really. Just interesting language point. I think that "chavs" would fit nicely. Maybe this word hasn't arrived across the channel yet so wouldn't be in the dictionairies yet.

 

[where to]

I hear that some of the kids are torching cars just so that they can see their area on national TV.

the tv crews would need to be there for this to carry weight. there are not tv crews in 300 towns and cities. the tv coverage ive seen has focused on the same parts of NE paris night after night.

i bet that some of them are filming stuff on their mobiles though. and who wouldn't?

 

[guinnessdrinker]

I don't see any argument, over in Brittany I have a large old English/French dictionary I purchased at a Vide Grenier, (rummage sale) which stated racaille means rabble. (The word was in used in French newspapers whilst I was there when the riots kicked off) I also have several new and brand new English/French dictionaries here in Britain and they call translate racaille as rabble.
Scum is rebut as in the scum of the Earth= Le rebut de genre humain.

the point is that the bloke, instead of discussing the riots, was challenging the translation of that word.

 

[where to]

fwiw, my old man whose french is very strong (lived and worked there for ten yrs, reads french version of le monde diplomatique) translates it as 'dregs of society'.

 

[Lea]

the tv crews would need to be there for this to carry weight. there are not tv crews in 300 towns and cities. the tv coverage ive seen has focused on the same parts of NE paris night after night.

i bet that some of them are filming stuff on their mobiles though. and who wouldn't?

On French national TV news they do show problem areas all over France. I was listening to the radio earlier and they were interviewing a school in the North of France which was burnt down.

 

[In Bloom]

There are plenty of people out there who would set stuff on fire just to see their town mentioned on TV.

Years ago, when their were major riots in big cities in the UK, over the next few days, there were smaller disturbances in a variety of different towns, obviously inspired by the local scum seeing it on telly and wanting a bit for themselves.

A bit of excitement, a thrill, a fight, notoriety, a chance to loot some local shops, whatever......

Not much to do with whatever the original grievance was about, in a totally different town.

Giles..

The grievances are the same all over though. Everyday life in capitalism is shit, being unable to get a job because of ghettoisation and institutionalised racism is shit, being harrassed by the police is shit.

 

[kyser_soze]

the tv crews would need to be there for this to carry weight. there are not tv crews in 300 towns and cities. the tv coverage ive seen has focused on the same parts of NE paris night after night.

i bet that some of them are filming stuff on their mobiles though. and who wouldn't?

This is a global news event mate - I'd put money on their being TV crews or photographers pretty much everywhere a wadstepaper bin has been set on fire at the moment...

'And here in the sleepy rustic French town of Surly-sur-la mer, the local community is in shock and outrage as a venerable local wastebin, dedicated to the town by Monsiuer Cuilleuy in commemoration of his horse being eaten by the town's poor and needy, was callously set on fire by local youths not more than an hour ago.

Interviewing one of the youths, who refused to be named other then 'Naf Naf', he said the following:

'Well, we are zo FUCKING bored out 'ere in ze provinces, nous zought zat nous could get on ze teevee by incinerating zat horse murdering bastards special bin. And it's worked!!'

 

[guinnessdrinker]

This is a global news event mate - I'd put money on their being TV crews or photographers pretty much everywhere a wadstepaper bin has been set on fire at the moment...

'And here in the sleepy rustic French town of Surly-sur-la mer, the local community is in shock and outrage as a venerable local wastebin, dedicated to the town by Monsiuer Cuilleuy in commemoration of his horse being eaten by the town's poor and needy, was callously set on fire by local youths not more than an hour ago.

Interviewing one of the youths, who refused to be named other then 'Naf Naf', he said the following:

'Well, we are zo FUCKING bored out 'ere in ze provinces, nous zought zat nous could get on ze teevee by incinerating zat horse murdering bastards special bin. And it's worked!!'

animal rights as well in france

 

[where to]

This is a global news event mate

don't patronise me.

 

[where to]

On French national TV news they do show problem areas all over France. I was listening to the radio earlier and they were interviewing a school in the North of France which was burnt down.

i've been watching tv5 news every night for a week. only been trappes and n.e paris so far

 

[Lea]

i've been watching tv5 news every night for a week. only been trappes and n.e paris so far

You can watch the recorded "journal télévisé" from France 2 on the internet France 2 recorded news

And the France 3 news as well France 3 recorded news

 

[Lea]

animal rights as well in france

Not very realistic. No qualms over here about eating horse meat or baby cows. Might be a bit reluctant to eat poultry but that's got nothing to do with sentimentality.

 

[kyser_soze]

don't patronise me.

I wasn't. I was pointing out that your comment about there not being a news crew in every place there's been voice was most likely wrong. Within that 'It;s a global news event' I was trying to encapsulate 'There will be 000s of newscrews there, all trying to get a different angle on the story, maybe trying to get away from Paris and the cities because let's face it, they've been done to death so maybe we could go for something more quirky and personal out in the countryside'

And I even went to the hassle of writing an example STORY from some godforsaken rural backwater and you accuse me of patronising you...

 

[kyser_soze]

animal rights as well in france

Are you so earnest you can't recognise satire when you see it?

 

[tobyjug]

i've been watching tv5 news every night for a week. only been trappes and n.e paris so far

That puzzles me, most major towns in France have been shown on maps on TV news bulletins as having problems. Even as far West as Nantes and Rennes.
I have as yet not seen anything about Brest having any problems though.

 

[poster342002]

I just don't accept the notion that these events represent some form of class conciousness or political awakening.

It's not even like these riots are even going anywhere or moving towards anything. By that I mean there's no indication that these neighbourhoods are falling to the control of the masses or that communes are being formed or anything like that.

All that's happening is a nightly trashing of the place and a few random beatings.

 

[tobyjug]

Might be a bit reluctant to eat poultry but that's got nothing to do with sentimentality.

For which I was truly thankful during my recent holiday, it made any self catering very cheap due to the amount of bargain poultry.

 

[Lea]

I just don't accept the notion that these events represent some form of class conciousness or political awakening.

It's not even like these riots are even going anywhere or moving towards anything. By that I mean there's no indication that these neighbourhoods are falling to the control of the masses or that communes being formed or anything like that.

All that's happening is a nightly trashing of the place and a few random beatings.

Very well summed up. I totally agree with what you say.

 

[In Bloom]

I just don't accept the notion that these events represent some form of class conciousness or political awakening.

Who said they do? Some have said that the riots are a manifestation of class struggle, but that's a different kettle of fish alltogether.

 

[kyser_soze]

Not very realistic. No qualms over here about eating horse meat or baby cows. Might be a bit reluctant to eat poultry but that's got nothing to do with sentimentality.

It wasn't supposed to be...

 

[where to]

I wasn't. I was pointing out that your comment about there not being a news crew in every place there's been voice was most likely wrong.

And I even went to the hassle of writing an example STORY from some godforsaken rural backwater and you accuse me of patronising you...

rural backwaters in france tend to be quite nice actually.

so you're seriously trying to tell me that there are hundreds of tv crews scattered over every little town in france?

anyway, i was talking about lea's original point which was that they were trying to get on national tv.

 

[where to]

That puzzles me, most major towns in France have been shown on maps on TV news bulletins as having problems. Even as far West as Nantes and Rennes.
I have as yet not seen anything about Brest having any problems though.

sorry, what i meant was that the film footage/interviews/ reporting had all been in N.E paris, with the exception of the report on trappes over in the western suburbs near where i used to live and where lea lives now. i posted a link up earlier in the thread of a map showing the main flashpoints.

 

[kyser_soze]

Who said they do? Some have said that the riots are a manifestation of class struggle, but that's a different kettle of fish alltogether.

That's one way of looking at it, from a specific point of view. It's not necessarily the truth, but within it's own logic it could be seen as truthful.

I'm with poster340002 on that point tho - aside from the sarkozy thing (and TBH it's at the point now where that could as easily be an adopted reason rather than actual reason) I really don't think there's a lot of actual thinking behind this...

What is funny is that if anyone did start saying this was organised by the left/whatever there'd be posters here decrying them as morons within seconds of them posting...

 

[where to]

I just don't accept the notion that these events represent some form of class conciousness or political awakening.

It's not even like these riots are even going anywhere or moving towards anything. By that I mean there's no indication that these neighbourhoods are falling to the control of the masses or that communes are being formed or anything like that.

All that's happening is a nightly trashing of the place and a few random beatings.

i think that there is a subconscious understanding that this is their chance to destroy sarko, if they lose now he becomes president almost without doubt. high stakes. they are also responding to the public debate in france, which opens up more by more each day. this is their reason to sustain the pressure. and the pressure they know is that which has worked so far. its one argument anyway.

you could argue any point really. its impossible to say, there is a little truth in almost any statement you could make about the thing. it doesn't even understand itself fully.