riots in paris banlieu...

[oi2002]

I think this is being reported rather hysterically. The French are of course worried but a lot of them see Integristes behind every bush.

Burning a few cars on a Saturday night is routine street entertainment in the tougher bits of most French cities. I heard they torched 1,500 cars in all of France last night, to spike the tank and flick a match at a car takes maybe 20 seconds, I think we can assume a typical 20 guy street gang can account for 50 cars in hour. This isn't exactly impressive in a country of 60 million people. The violence seems patchy and fast moving and the population mobilization marginal. Firearms are very common in the ghettos and they've hardly been used. This certainly isn't an Intifada and it looks thin beside the intensity of the recent riots in Belfast or a decade ago in LA.

What's unusual is it is very widespread but then youth unemployment is running above 30% iin France and in the North African ghettos it's much worse and les flics are less than tender with the residents. Exactly the same sort of conditions that existed in Toxteth in the early 80s but in a country that's been much more receptive to immigrants.

 

[888]

(Damn, should have joined this conversation before...)

He used the term "racaille". How do you translate this word?

He also talked about "cleaning out" the violent youth gangs with a "Karcher" (a high-powered hose).

The term racaille was also used by the French bourgeoisie to justify repressing the Paris Commune. Also used by the radical french working class to identify themselves in the 19th/20th centuries.

Anyway racaille does essentially mean scum, kyzer.

 

[articul8]

Interesting to see the British coverage on newsnight tonight, attributing the riots to "radicalised" muslim youth

- true in the sense that young arab/african french are incredibly alienated due to no jobs/shite housing/oppressive policing etc, but clearly gives the impression it has something to do with ideology of Bin Laden et al. (for which I can see no evidence whatever).

 

[audiotech]

Don't know about France, but in this country if you trash your own neighbourhood you'll find millions of pounds in public money reigning down before long.

Usually spent on garden centres and theme parks.

 

[Firky]

Interesting to see the British coverage on newsnight tonight, attributing the riots to "radicalised" muslim youth

- true in the sense that young arab/african french are incredibly alienated due to no jobs/shite housing/oppressive policing etc, but clearly gives the impression it has something to do with ideology of Bin Laden et al. (for which I can see no evidence whatever).

they interrupted the debate last week for more pressing news of squirrels

goes back to lurking in the scary forum

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Interesting to see the British coverage on newsnight tonight, attributing the riots to "radicalised" muslim youth

- true in the sense that young arab/african french are incredibly alienated due to no jobs/shite housing/oppressive policing etc, but clearly gives the impression it has something to do with ideology of Bin Laden et al. (for which I can see no evidence whatever).

Some of the stuff I've been reading would suggest that at least a few of the "rioters" are fans on him...

 

[Treacle Toes]

Some of the stuff I've been reading would suggest that at least a few of the "rioters" are fans on him...

How convenient...

 

[Treacle Toes]

the estates aren't that bad, they're all post war at the very least, usually sixties or seventies. now you want to see certain parts of central paris where they still have lead pipes and the health damage it does to kids.

And you are so obviously qualified to judge...'post war at least'? ...I don't think these riots are only down to unsatisified council tenents.....

 

[vimto]

Wake up! The French political establishment are moving sharply to the right, toward a more authoritarian form of rule and they are deliberately stirring up anti-immigrant hysteria to do it. It's the good old enemy within agitation scam. Divide and rule, divide and rule, white against black - you ought to know the drill by now.

Eyewitness to Paris riots charges police with deliberate provocation

So you think that these riots have been orchestrted by the French authorities bigfish?

Come on.

The kids are rioting because they want to...surely to fuck you can take the UK 80s riots as a template here...non?

 

[Treacle Toes]

These people are scum, and they are mainly destroying their own communities.

Giles..

Giles....when you look in the mirror in the morning I bet SCUM is the first word that comes into your mind....

 

[vimto]

As for cop/state provocation...what's new?

 

[vimto]

Giles....when you look in the mirror in the morning I bet SCUM is the first word that comes into your mind....

Who the fuck is Giles?

 

[vimto]

Is he a rich bastard like?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

i think he's a property developer.

...and his name is Giles, although that may be ironic.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Giles....when you look in the mirror in the morning I bet SCUM is the first word that comes into your mind....

that is crap post.

thats like saying 'I know you are but what am I?' in the playground.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

How convenient...

Thankfully it hasn't been widespread from what I can tell although you can imagine the field day the rightwing press would have with that...

 

[treelover]

No, but i do think they may have let them escalate as to bring in more radical and oppressive leglisation and yes, perhaps also to shore up thier right wing credentials and shift the country to the right.

So you think that these riots have been orchestrted by the French authorities bigfish?

 

[Treacle Toes]

that is crap post.

thats like saying 'I know you are but what am I?' in the playground.

Well sometimes you have to relate to people on their own level honey....I originally quoted giles as calling the rioters 'scum'.....so yes...my point is takes one to know one .....

 

[vimto]

No, but i do think they may have let them escalate as to bring in more radical and oppressive leglisation and yes, perhaps also to shore up thier right wing credentials and shift the country to the right.

Yeah agreed.

The only difference being that the UK has introduced or are attempting to introduce the measures we see today. Complete detention without trial.

Do the authorities in France have the same leeway?

 

[treelover]

maybe already mentioned but Le Pen has put his oar in now...


btw, this story is now so significant it should go on general, not this backwater

The leader of the far-right National Front (FN), Jean-Marie Le Pen, has described the situation as nearing "the brink of civil war".

 

[where to]

Interesting to see the British coverage on newsnight tonight, attributing the riots to "radicalised" muslim youth

theres been some good reporting on this on C4.
i've been watching the french news all week and the idea that there is a link to islamic extremism has not even been proposed or discussed. every rioter and kid on the street has said that they are against sarko, against the dismantling of cummunity policing by sarko, and desperate to be given a fair chance in the jobs market.

sarko did raise the idea last week that they were being manipulated by imams or radicals and he was laughed into silence - by the police, who said he was talking shite.

there was a synagogue attacked by one incendiary device, but then the police also fired teargas into a mosque! one attack out of 1500 car attacks and hundreds of property attacks.

this is not religiously motivated - especially when the rioters are mixed religion and race, i don't know why on earth they are saying that.

 

[where to]

Front National statement released last week:

"Urban Violences: It is necessary that the Council of Ministers issues the emergency state immediately urban violences strike particularly certain peripheral communes of the Paris area. It is for this reason that I must take the defense of the inhabitants of the communes concerned. It is time to put an end to confusions, the cases of arson, the shootings with real balls, as well as the aggressions against the people With this intention, I put forth a clear proposal: introduction of the emergency state on all the territories concerned. Indeed, only the law n°55 - 385 of 3 April 1955 relating to the emergency state would make it possible to bring back the order. This law authorizes the government, joined together in the Council of Ministers, to issue the emergency state, and to take following measurements immediately: To prohibit the movement of the people on certain ways, to institute zones of protection, to pronounce prohibitions of stay in the departments concerned, to prohibit the provocative meetings, to assign certain individuals with residence or to authorize all administrative searchings of day like night. Lastly, principal measurement would consist in obliging the deposit in the police stations of all the weapons and ammunition; the whole under penalty of an immediate imprisonment. It is advisable to recall that these restrictive measurements of freedom were used in 1985 per François MITTERRAND, in order to restore the republican order in New Caledonia, and this for disorders infinitely less serious than today."

calling for introduction of marshall law.

 

[vimto]

Well the Front National are always kicking out of their way to portray any situation outwith their control as being anathema to their blinded reactionary viewpoint.

Tossers really

 

[Isambard]

So you think that these riots have been orchestrted by the French authorities bigfish? Come on.

Je ne suis un Poisson alais............

No, the riots weren't orchestrated by thecentre-right but it plays into their hands for a "law and order" agenda that, what's his name? "Sickbag" has been pushing for anyway over the last couple of years.

As I mentioned a said une zillionè posts ago and has been proved by the Urbanite who posted the Economist link, this is being used to push the neo-liberal agenda and allowing the establishment to abandon corporatism.

 

[bigfish]

So you think that these riots have been orchestrted by the French authorities bigfish?

Come on.

The kids are rioting because they want to...surely to fuck you can take the UK 80s riots as a template here...non?

The kids are rioting because they've been provoked into it by Sarkosy's paramilitary police operations in some of the most deprived suburbs of Paris. The French political establishment are taking a rightward turn and utilizing anti-immigrant hysteria in the process.

 

[soulman]

Parts of Toulouse are in flames tonight bringing the number of towns and cities affected by uprisings to 300 or so. Trying to make comparisons with the inner city riots of the 1980's in Toxteth or Handsworth seems pointless. Capitalism has restructured since then and the forms of open resistance to it also seems to have changed accordingly. This is something that seems to be lost on most mainstream political commentators who prefer to catergorise this latest manifestation of alienation as 'race riots' and seize upon the tragic death of one man as proof positive for their own prejudices. One man dead in 11 days of rioting - I wonder how that compares with the number of deaths in 11 days of 'normal life' within capitalism.

 

[TeeJay]

...As I mentioned a said une zillionè posts ago and has been proved by the Urbanite who posted the Economist link, this is being used to push the neo-liberal agenda and allowing the establishment to abandon corporatism.

So which French politicians are using this to advance a neo-liberal agenda?

Surely it could equally be used to argue against one and in favour of more state intervention, protection and management?

 

[TeeJay]

...Capitalism has restructured since then and the forms of open resistance to it also seems to have changed accordingly. This is something that seems to be lost on most mainstream political commentators who prefer to catergorise this latest manifestation of alienation as 'race riots' and seize upon the tragic death of one man as proof positive for their own prejudices...

But where is your evidence that these protests are against "capitalism"?

Or are you saying that everything wrong with thew world is due to capitalism, and so all protests are in some way or another against capitalism?

(What I call the "blaming capitalism for your cat being stuck up the tree" syndrome - leading to the "calling for a revolution to get it down again" response)

 

[hipipol]

I suspect Radicalised Pedietrians

I mean thousands of cars have been torched
Must be the work of enraged walkers

 

[Christian Man]

Maybe it's the Earth Liberation Front.