Paris burns after police murder youth

[savoloysam]

back in the day human rights were deployed as something 'we' had that the ussr and red China didn't. But it was as much of an illusion as the claim there are no political police in Britain. It's just our thugs are better mannered than their ones, that's the only difference

Or as George Carlin they are not rights if someone can take them away they are temporary privileges that can be revoked at any time.

 

[RD2003]

Basically I think most on heres experience doesn’t extend much beyond putting on what they think is a working class accent and trying to engage the trade in ‘footy banter’ much to the bemused amusement of the builder concerned…

'Look at me talking to a builder like we're on the same level.'

 

[Pickman's model]

Or as George Carlin they are not rights if someone can take them away they are temporary privileges that can be revoked at any time.

Or as nietzsche put it, a right you can seize for yourself you should not accept as a gift

 

[belboid]

This is what I mean when I say folk on here know Fuck all about how construction employment works.

No, you just don't seem to understand what fake self-employment means.

 

[angusmcfangus]

No, you just don't seem to understand what fake self-employment means.

Thats how the hustle works, the agencies are not offering you a paye alternative.
The rates on offer depends on availability of trades available, while they cream off the top.

 

[belboid]

Thats how the hustle works, the agencies are not offering you a paye alternative.
The rates on offer depends on availability of trades available, while they cream off the top.

for sure. It's a fucking con. It's not self-employment in the 'traditional' sense.

 

[BristolEcho]

Sounds like a waste of his time to just hang about all day. He should either be delivering extra work, laying off one of the employees or be on the golf course. With this flawed business model I give them three weeks.

Don't a lot of bosses do this? Don't really want to do much work themselves, but also paranoid their staff won't do their work so make sure to constantly monitor them.

 

[angusmcfangus]

Absolutely, but it's how most folk get employment in the UK construction industry at present.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

No, you just don't seem to understand what fake self-employment means.

The agency are simply middle men that supply sites with workers meaning the workers have no terms and conditions and can be hired and fired at will. There’s no reporting line with the agency. The ‘employer’ essentially becomes their client.
This was encouraged in the 80s to weaken organisation in construction.
But according to you these people aren’t working class. Yet they’re more exploited than those in secure employment.

 

[pbsmooth]

If he is selling his labour in order to earn his income, then he is indeed working class. Just because you are working class, it doesn't mean you are not a blood sucking parasite who deserves to be shot. Please do tell him that too

your definition is ridiculous and out-dated. but I admire your enthusiasm for sticking to your guns.

 

[belboid]

The agency are simply middle men that supply sites with workers meaning the workers have no terms and conditions and can be hired and fired at will. There’s no reporting line with the agency. The ‘employer’ essentially becomes their client.
This was encouraged in the 80s to weaken organisation in construction.
But according to you these people aren’t working class. Yet they’re more exploited than those in secure employment.

Did someone drop a brick on your head? As I have said several times, they are not really self-employed. It's a buillshit con. It does help atomise workers and set them against each other, to an extent, but they are still workers who do not really control their labour. And it is the latter bit of that sentence which is central.

 

[belboid]

your definition is ridiculous and out-dated. but I admire your enthusiasm for sticking to your guns.

bless. How well paid does someone have to be in your sensible and up-to-date world to not be working class any more?

The fact that some workers are very well paid in order to buy them off is hardly new. Likewise, the fact that some workers work to hold the existing system up isn't new. It puts them in a deeply contradictory position, but that doesn't mean they stop being workers.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Did someone drop a brick on your head? As I have said several times, they are not really self-employed. It's a buillshit con. It does help atomise workers and set them against each other, to an extent, but they are still workers who do not really control their labour. And it is the latter bit of that sentence which is central.

They’re not employed by the agency. The agency are parasitic middle men in the arrangement.
They’re sub contractors to the contractor on site.
I’ve actually worked in this arrangement so I think I know a little bit more about it than yourself.
Yes it’s a fiddle entirely to the benefit of the bosses.
And you’re actually contradicting yourself. If the agency were their employer then why don’t the agency supply tools, plant, PPE etc?

 

[Sue]

Does anyone remember Cameron's 'I'm Dave' period where he boasted that people frequently thought/mistook him for a plumber?

Happens ALL THE TIME to old Etonians.

 

[The39thStep]

Happens ALL THE TIME to old Etonians.

One of us

 

[belboid]

They’re not employed by the agency. The agency are parasitic middle men in the arrangement.
They’re sub contractors to the contractor on site.
I’ve actually worked in this arrangement so I think I know a little bit more about it than yourself.
Yes it’s a fiddle entirely to the benefit of the bosses.
And you’re actually contradicting yourself. If the agency were their employer then why don’t the agency supply tools, plant, PPE etc?

wtf are you on about now? You seem rather overly fussed about British laws and contractual niceties. Which misses the point completely and utterly.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

wtf are you on about now? You seem rather overly fussed about British laws and contractual niceties. Which misses the point completely and utterly.

I know you don’t like losing an internet argument but unfortunately you’re talking out of your hole.

 

[belboid]

Okay boss.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Unions representing half of French police officers have described those taking part in the rioting, which follows years of complaints of racial profiling and heavy handed policing, as “savage hordes” and “vermin”, saying they consider themselves “at war”.

The language of the Alliance Police Nationale and UNSA Police unions, which echoes far-right phrasing, is being denounced as inflammatory and potentially dangerous. In a statement bearing the title “Now that’s enough”, they said:

Faced with these savage hordes, asking for calm doesn’t go far enough. It must be imposed.
Re-establishing order in the republic and putting those arrested somewhere they can do no harm must be the only political signals to send out.
Our colleagues, like the majority of the public, can no longer have the law laid down to them by a violent minority.
This is not the time for industrial action, but for fighting against these ‘vermin’. To submit, to capitulate, and to give them pleasure by laying down weapons are not solutions, given the gravity of the situation.
They said: “Today, police officers are at the frontline because we are at war.” And they warned the government that, unless officers are given yet greater legal protections and more resources in the future, “tomorrow, we will be in resistance”.

Hmmm, yeah, wonder why people feel like the police are racist when their representatives call them "savage hordes" and "vermin"

And the other comments would presage a downward slippery slope to authoritarianism.

 

[mojo pixy]

They’re not employed by the agency. The agency are parasitic middle men in the arrangement.
They’re sub contractors to the contractor on site.
I’ve actually worked in this arrangement so I think I know a little bit more about it than yourself.
Yes it’s a fiddle entirely to the benefit of the bosses.
And you’re actually contradicting yourself. If the agency were their employer then why don’t the agency supply tools, plant, PPE etc?

Because they're a shit, unfair employer?

If the 'self-employed' agency staff can't get those jobs on their own, invoice the clients on their own, keep the equipment they use, and work under their own names instead of 'for an agency' then their status as self employed is a sham. They're employed, by an employer that has written its own rulebook and terminology. At best.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Because they're a shit, unfair employer?

If the 'self-employed' agency staff can't get those jobs on their own, invoice the clients on their own, keep the equipment they use, and work under their own names instead of 'for an agency' then their status as self employed is a sham. They're employed, by an employer that has written its own rulebook and terminology. At best.

But folk were talking about supplying your own tools (means of production) etc earlier and then I give this example where that is the case and now folk want to argue that they’re not self employed (which they are, HMRC certainly think so).
You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Flavour]

Have the riots finished now then

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Have the riots finished now then

I’ve dealt with belboid just now in the car park with mojo pixie.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Have the riots finished now then

You won't find out by looking on this thread as it seems to have nothing to do with the actual events in France.....

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Anyone one know what’s happening in France currently?

There have been 10pm to 6am curfews in some Bordeaux neighbourhoods since the middle of last week, and the tram network shuts down at 9pm (although it shuts at 8pm in the direction I usually want to go). I was in town on Saturday night, went for dinner. A bit weird walking down the main shopping street and seeing a load of cracked windows.

Last night I was on my way to the Depeche Mode concert at the big stadium here (having bought a relatively cheap resale ticket about a week ago) and some locals warned me not to go into the city centre because I would be attacked.

I heard some shouting between 7.15-7.30pm ish, don't know if there was anything kicking off though.

Things seem to have quietened down a bit. Or at least the Tour de France is now headline news in the local paper and not the riots.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Sorry, probably should get back to topic.

 

[belboid]

But folk were talking about supplying your own tools (means of production) etc earlier and then I give this example where that is the case and now folk want to argue that they’re not self employed (which they are, HMRC certainly think so).
You can’t have it both ways.

christ sakes. Fuck HMRC's opinion. And you are more than a tad obsessed over one minor part of my point (as is usual). The means of production includes but goes beyond owning (some of) the tools required for a job. I mean my employer doesn't provide the fingers I need to type, occasionally I have even had to provide my own laptop. That isn't the fundamental point. It's almost as if you just like arguing for the sake of it.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

christ sakes. Fuck HMRC's opinion. And you are more than a tad obsessed over one minor part of my point (as is usual). The means of production includes but goes beyond owning (some of) the tools required for a job. I mean my employer doesn't provide the fingers I need to type, occasionally I have even had to provide my own laptop. That isn't the fundamental point. It's almost as if you just like arguing for the sake of it.

Or that you refuse to accept that construction workers were offered lower taxes as a carrot to become self employed in order to give them zero terms and conditions as a self employed atomised work force to the benefit of the bosses.
I lived it mate whilst you were reading your books.
Anyway, let’s stop clogging up the thread.

 

[Elpenor]

Basically I think most on heres experience doesn’t extend much beyond putting on what they think is a working class accent and trying to engage the trade in ‘footy banter’ much to the bemused amusement of the builder concerned…

I used to follow the “on the tools” Facebook page

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Or that you refuse to accept that construction workers were offered lower taxes as a carrot to become self employed in order to give them zero terms and conditions as a self employed atomised work force to the benefit of the bosses.
I lived it mate whilst you were reading your books.
Anyway, let’s stop clogging up the thread.

There's a bit of a scam in the US where over-the-road truckers are sold on the idea of being their own boss. They're provided with a truck (and a debt on it), a schedule of pickup referrals, etc. They end up working nearly for free because all of the expenses come out of their pocket instead of the company they're working for.