riots in paris banlieu...
- Thread starter DaveCinzano
- Start date
Lea
Well-Known Member
Burning of schools
Not content with torching their neighbours' cars, many schools have been set on fire, including an 'ecole maternelle' (kindergarten school) 5 minutes from where I live.
Ecole Maternelle incendiée à Achères
Not content with torching their neighbours' cars, many schools have been set on fire, including an 'ecole maternelle' (kindergarten school) 5 minutes from where I live.
Ecole Maternelle incendiée à Achères
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
The French political élite has no interest in advancing a neo-liberal agenda. The only part of French political life that is interested in doing so are those companies that exist as the 2nd tier and below in French industry - within the business élite in France (Elf Aquitaine, PSA, BNP, Credit Agricole etc) the boards are so deeply embedded inside the political system as it currently stands to want change - a switch to neo-liberal economics would fundamentally alter the dirigiste model that supports the National Champions when times get tough. Quite simply while there is vocal support for neo-lib policies from some quarters, the actual bedrock of the French political system is against it.
Not to mention that such comments show a misunderstanding of how France sees itself. If nothing else, the adoption of such a savage and unplanned, uncontrollable system as A-S Capitalism would be seen as a failure of the State and, for want of a better word, distasteful to the French.
Not to mention that such comments show a misunderstanding of how France sees itself. If nothing else, the adoption of such a savage and unplanned, uncontrollable system as A-S Capitalism would be seen as a failure of the State and, for want of a better word, distasteful to the French.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
888 said:
Aside from 5 online French-English dictionarys saying it translates as 'rabble' of course...
Not trying to back Sarko here but seriously...
And on the subject of Bigfish's comments about agent provocatuers...the article (sourced from ONE eyewitness with no corroboration from another source) basically says that the night it kicked off there was a large police presence after the two youths (or youth...the article isn't clear on youths or youth being chased, altho that can be put down to bad subbing since they even misspell the witnesses name later, changing it from 'Germa' to 'German') had died and we walking down the streets. Nothing in the article metions that outside of actually being there, the police didn't start any fights, didn't raid any homes. It was simply their presence that started the problems.
Now, in my mind 'provoking' requires more than simply passive presence - maybe I'm wrong but 'to provoke' is to actively create a situation.
Anyway, here's the article again...
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/nov2005/fran-n05.shtml
Lea
Well-Known Member
Hello whereto!
Yes, I live in Yvelines. Not much is happening in the town where I live. It's quiet middle class town. There aren't many big blocks of HLMs in this town. I live just one stop after Acheres on the RER line. Acheres is much more "populaire" a town. Local trouble spots near to where I live include a town called Chanteloup Les Vignes. It has alot of HLMs and a notorious reputation. Everytime I drive through there is always broken glass from smashed telephone kiosks or shop windows and lots of youths hanging around the streets.
Yes, I live in Yvelines. Not much is happening in the town where I live. It's quiet middle class town. There aren't many big blocks of HLMs in this town. I live just one stop after Acheres on the RER line. Acheres is much more "populaire" a town. Local trouble spots near to where I live include a town called Chanteloup Les Vignes. It has alot of HLMs and a notorious reputation. Everytime I drive through there is always broken glass from smashed telephone kiosks or shop windows and lots of youths hanging around the streets.
TeeJay said:You are claiming that *every* protest is a protest against capitalism?
I'm suggesting that protest becomes 'illegal' when it's deemed to be a threat to the existing social and economic order. Not all protest is deemed 'illegal'. The reaction of the French state in introducing curfews, increasing police numbers and threatening to send in the army suggests they see it as a threat against the existing social and economic order. A white person dies and it becomes a 'race riot', a church is torched and it becomes a 'religious riot'. Thousands of cars have been torched so maybe it's just a big RTS eh?
What do you think it's about TeeJay?
Treacle Toes
Time
So they introduce a curfew and then what?
Hope that the problems will go away?
Hope that the problems will go away?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Rutita1 said:
It's all about wanting to appear macho before the electorate. The presidential election is around 2 years away.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Quite. I imagine if anyone went and suggested to the rioters that they descend on parliament, they'd laugh in their face. Much easier to target their own neighbourhood, eh?TeeJay said:
I think people need to face it - this isn't any sort of progressive uprising. I'm amazed some people are rushing to try and portay it as such, when much of it appears very unpleasant and devoid of working-class politics at all. Indeed - how can smashing up fellow-working class people's cars, buses and services or beating fellow-working class people up be in any way progressive?
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
soulman said:
Has anyone invovled in French politics actually USED either of those terms? And is this really a protest or just random acts of violence and civil disorder with no real aim or purpose?
sorry but the curfew is the fairest thing they can do right now for all concerned. these politicians aren't going to become communists or anarchists or whatever you are over night so really all you can hope for is that they stop to tackle the roots of the problems, try and stop the rioting which is destroying the services, and start working together (sarko chirac and villepin) rather than the fucking pointscoring that has been going on and the bravado rhetoric of scum like sarkozy. sitting back and sneering at their attempts to actually put out this fire shows you up to be merely a self satisfied ideologue bore.nino_savatte said:
Just been on the news a 50 year old law is being implemented to allow local curfews and house searches for weapons. (I assume without the French equivalent of a warrant) I believe this was last used in Algeria.
An interviewed police chief did not seem too happy a bunny with these extra powers.
An interviewed police chief did not seem too happy a bunny with these extra powers.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Imagine yourself as a Police Chief in France at the moment.
The streets are going off and you've just been tasked with enforcing a curfew that includes the right to enter and search houses in communities that you probably don't already have great relations with, and that are the main participants in the current violence.
I wouldn't exactly be happy being charged with a job and powers that are almost certain to make things a lot worse, and then have to take the shit for it.
The streets are going off and you've just been tasked with enforcing a curfew that includes the right to enter and search houses in communities that you probably don't already have great relations with, and that are the main participants in the current violence.
I wouldn't exactly be happy being charged with a job and powers that are almost certain to make things a lot worse, and then have to take the shit for it.
Rutita1 said:
who said that they were down to "unsatisfied council tenants"
Lea
Well-Known Member
bigfish said:
I hear that some of the kids are torching cars just so that they can see their area on national TV.
The latest I hear is that the government are "reactivating" a law from 1955. Curfews to be imposed in certain areas.
Earlier in the thread there was a discussion about the word "racaille" - the word "rabble" being used as the English translation. Would the popular word "chavs" often used by the British press be a good modern translation of the word.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
In Bloom said:Yeah, I'm sure that's what the whole thing is about, really
See the difference between the OP and your reply?
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