Revolution: "Independent" Youth Group?

[cockneyrebel]

I should think those figures are roughly right. I mean they’ve underestimated WP, but the difference between 50 and 80 is hardly a big deal. I think the other estimates sound about right.

I dunno where this “in political solidarity” with WP comes from regarding Revo though. That hasn’t been the case for years. There obviously are strong links between the two but that statement just isn’t true. I don’t think the CPGB tries very hard to bother with the facts, but there you go.

 

[butchersapron]

So, they're right for all but your own group which is bigger than suggested - i love the left sometimes...

And how can you agree but then argure " I don?t think the CPGB tries very hard to bother with the facts, but there you go." in relation to your group?

 

[pregethwr]

Leaves out their own membership though, which after a recent split is apparently less than 20!

 

[dennisr]

i love the left sometimes...

- me too, i wonder (a little bit...) what the reply will be to the point made...

 

[cockneyrebel]

Yeah the CPGB is around 20.

Butchers I said the difference between 50 and 80 is hardly a big deal! And the other figures seem roughly right to me, but obviously won’t be exact. The AWL could have 80 or could have 120. The SWP could have 900 or could have 1400. Overall though I think they are ROUGHLY right.

That doesn’t mean I can’t think the CPGB don’t bother with the facts, as the “political solidarity” bit shows…

 

[Udo Erasmus]

I dunno where this “in political solidarity” with WP comes from regarding Revo though. That hasn’t been the case for years. There obviously are strong links between the two but that statement just isn’t true.

Of course their are strong links, Revo was set up by WP and recruits youngsters to the adult organisation.

 

[cockneyrebel]

And what point are you making Udo? The majority of Revo members and the majority of the Revo NC aren’t in WP (indeed only 4 out of 14). Yeah WP set up Revo and yeah some Revo members join WP (some join other organisations). So what?

As said Spark collapsed almost as it was set up and was run by Chris “leather gloves” Bambery…

As I asked earlier are you a Revo or WP stalker?!

 

[Idris2002]

In that bit of c&p from the Weekly Worker, what exactly does 'periphery' mean?

Former members who are no longer active but sympathetic?

People who aren't members but are sympathisers?

People who are partially influenced by the positions of these groups?

 

[butchersapron]

People who can boost their numbers in exercises like this.

 

[rednblack]

In that bit of c&p from the Weekly Worker, what exactly does 'periphery' mean?

Former members who are no longer active but sympathetic?

People who aren't members but are sympathisers?

People who are partially influenced by the positions of these groups?

yr bolshiebhoys and flimsiers - the flotsam and jetsam

 

[blamblam]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rednblack
the anarchist youth network (AYN)

Was it any good?

Nah not really really, a bit anti-organisationalist and lifestylist, was a good laugh thought and quite a few of us learnt a lot about organisation, but when Charlie told us to wind it up we were quite happy to comply.

 

[charlie mowbray]

(Puts on Spike from Tom n' Jerry voice)
That's my boy!

 

[past caring]

........but when Charlie told us to wind it up we were quite happy to comply.

Lenin? Who he?

 

[scawenb]

In that bit of c&p from the Weekly Worker, what exactly does 'periphery' mean?

The thing about membership numbers is that they depend on what sort of commitment is required from members. If it is signing a card on demo then you would have 100s of members if it means leaving your home, job and family then it is much less.

Really membership should be measured by the number of people who sell your newspaper, pay subs or actively work for the organisation. There are lots of people who are members who do nothing and there are lots of people who are committed to an organisation but who for some reason do not actually join.

 

[Mr T]

I dunno where this “in political solidarity” with WP comes from regarding Revo though. That hasn’t been the case for years.

Except this bit from our manifesto:

Therefore we fight together with the League for the Fifth International (LFI) and all others that share our goals for the creation of the revolutionary fifth international.

Which i don't particularly like but it was voted on at conference, so there you go

 

[cockneyrebel]

That’s not really quite the same though is it. Saying that you will fight with another organisation to form a new international is not the same as saying you’re in political solidarity with them. There is a big difference IMO.

I think an international does need to be formed, but if Revo took out the mention of the LFI I wouldn’t care either way as a WP member….

 

[scawenb]

Except this bit from our manifesto:

Therefore we fight together with the League for the Fifth International (LFI) and all others that share our goals for the creation of the revolutionary fifth international.

You say except but surely WP are the only political organisation who is in the LFI. Technically you are correct there is a separation between the two but there is also a very strong link. The ANL, GR and RUC are all separate from the SWP but there is a link. It seems silly to pretend otherwise.

 

[cockneyrebel]

I think Mr T would accept there is a strong link between WP, it’s not something that’s hidden or seen as a bad thing. However Revo has made good steps towards independence with the setting up of the national committee being one of them. Not to say there aren’t still improvements needed IMO, but still it’s got a lot better….

 

[In Bloom]

Yawn.

Take it you're [ernestolynch] not going to answer the fucking question then?

Still there Ern? I'm waiting, how the fuck does me studying history at A level make me a trot?

 

[joshjosh]

I think Mr T would accept there is a strong link between WP, it’s not something that’s hidden or seen as a bad thing. However Revo has made good steps towards independence with the setting up of the national committee being one of them. Not to say there aren’t still improvements needed IMO, but still it’s got a lot better….

there are links, definately, but to be honest, i don't think that section in the manifesto has had any impact on revo work on the ground (i also voted against it, but am happy to stick by it)

i think that theres bound to be a close link between the two organisations given that both have good politics, our members have been kicked out of the SWP for being in revo, the AWL are too right wing, the sparts and the IBT too left wing, and the socialist party by and large don't work with us (although in leicester we work pretty closely together.

any link comes from two things: 1) WP set up revo ages ago, and, 2) no other group is willing to be close to revo (or vice bversa

its not as if theres a rule set in stone that we won't go near anyone, its not even as if every revo member who takes on a big role has to be in WP (the comrade who took on the LCR who weren't going to let the youth assembly declaration be read was non-WP, i'm non-WP and am bveing interviewed on revo's behalf today, bank accounts, organisers and loads of other things are non-WP)

 

[gurrier]

Therefore we fight together with the League for the Fifth International (LFI) and all others that share our goals for the creation of the revolutionary fifth international.

Yep, youth groups all over the world come to this conclusion independently of any political parties.

This one line pretty much says all there is to say about revo politically. A front of a sect if ever there was one.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Yep just ignore everything that has been said by non-WP Revo members and keep on keeping on with your digs.....

 

[Ray]

Yep just ignore everything that has been said by non-WP Revo members and keep on keeping on with your digs.....

You do know that Globalise Resistance, the ANL, UAF, etc, etc, etc have non-SWP members, don't you?

 

[gurrier]

Yep just ignore everything that has been said by non-WP Revo members and keep on keeping on with your digs.....

Okay.

The other day me and my mates were down the local arcade playing pool. The conversation turned to the state of the world. We were all complaining about the fucking fascists who run the state and the war and all that. Then, bingo, little Jimmy Murphy stood up and said, "I know what lads, lets work towards the foundation of a fifth international, we can stand in political solidarity with the League for a Fifth International, although independent of them." The proposal was so blindingly obvious and clearly the only political progression that could satisfy our rebellious young minds, that we were all shocked that we hadn't thought of it before. Later, before we went home to do our homework, we toddled off and joined revo.

 

[rednblack]

You do know that Globalise Resistance, have non-SWP members, don't you?

actually i don't think GR has any more

 

[fanciful]

neither does the anl

 

[cockneyrebel]

Don't get what you're saying gurrier. Yeah the idea of forming a fifth international came from Workers Power and that's where the idea came in Revo, from WP members. But no-one had denied there are links between Revo and WP! WP set Revo up for fucks sake. But the point is that Revo has become increasing independent. Yeah GR and the ANL had non-SWPers but not to the ratio of only 4 out of 14 on the steering committee. Indeed there are branches of Revo where there are no WP members at all....

But yeah just keep on keeping on with the digs....

 

[Flavour]

like i said before, manchester revo - only one person involved is a WP member

 

[butchersapron]

That proves fuck.

 

[Flavour]

im not too bothered about "front groups" - does a group lose credibility if it was set up by another?

the only thing i wanted to point out is that from my experience, revo is not a front group controlled by and for wp to the extent that UAF, GR, ANL are by the SWP.