farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
Banning Facebook globally would be simpler. And better for society.
Rejecting vaccination - "growing public health time bomb", NHS Chief warns
- Thread starter cupid_stunt
- Start date
Banning Facebook globally would be simpler. And better for society.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Fiona O’Leary has been doing a lot of work exposing/campaigning against quackery and the far-right in Ireland.
Fiona O'Leary
Fiona O'Leary
Orang Utan : Can you, or somebody, please explain those terms? I've never encountered them ..... I mean I can roughly work out the meaning from context, but where the hell did they come from?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Which is an interesting combination.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Orang Utan : Can you, or somebody, please explain those terms? I've never encountered them ..... I mean I can roughly work out the meaning from context, but where the hell did they come from?
Woo - RationalWiki
That's an excellent explanation, thanks!
Rational Wiki looks like a good resource generally too, cheers
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
The question was 'How much Black Salve do I need for a pessary to treat vaginal cancer?'.
Comment by a reader:
'My vagina just crawled so far back inside me I’m wearing it like a hat.'
Comment by a reader:
'My vagina just crawled so far back inside me I’m wearing it like a hat.'
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
OK. And when the police come knocking regarding the abduction and assault of a child, what then?
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Nurses, d'oh.
Really? You will not find a nurse in the country that would vaccinate a child against the wishes of the parents.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
It would be social services that removes the child, under a court order, in the rare cases of parents refusing to comply with any new legalisation, the police would have no involvement. The threat of that happening, together with fines, would ensure most parents would comply anyway.
I am sure that if compulsory vaccination was introduced, as in some European countries, there would be plenty of nurses in agreement with that, in the interest of public health.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I am absolutely pro vaccination, with some reservations,
If I wanted to live in a totalitarian state I would move to North Korea. What you propose is that thick end of the wedge re the interaction of government and populace.
If I wanted to live in a totalitarian state I would move to North Korea. What you propose is that thick end of the wedge re the interaction of government and populace.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Yep, because it's becoming a 'public health time-bomb', so extreme measures need to be considered, compulsory vaccination is required in plenty of countries, including the likes of Belgium & France, which I wouldn't call totalitarian states.
What reservations?
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I am in favour of vaccination, with some reservations.
The reservations do not affect the routine childhood vaccinations.
I am not in favour of compulsory vaccination, and certainly not if this involves the state being able to forcibly vaccinate a child... that is simply wrong.
There are other things that can be done, coupling child benefit to proof of vaccination, refusing the child entry to school or nursery etc.
Perhaps some graphic advert campaigns may help... let people see what a really bad case of measles looks like, because although the incidence is rising, millions of people will never have seen a case.
One of the most dreadful events of my life involved an unvaccinated child. It was whooping cough. The child died in my arms whilst the mother was clerking in. There was not a bloody thing we could do. I have never felt so helpless... and so angry.
The reservations do not affect the routine childhood vaccinations.
I am not in favour of compulsory vaccination, and certainly not if this involves the state being able to forcibly vaccinate a child... that is simply wrong.
There are other things that can be done, coupling child benefit to proof of vaccination, refusing the child entry to school or nursery etc.
Perhaps some graphic advert campaigns may help... let people see what a really bad case of measles looks like, because although the incidence is rising, millions of people will never have seen a case.
One of the most dreadful events of my life involved an unvaccinated child. It was whooping cough. The child died in my arms whilst the mother was clerking in. There was not a bloody thing we could do. I have never felt so helpless... and so angry.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Disregard of vaccination schedules, concomitant administration of vaccines that should never be given together.
France does not forcibly vaccinate children.
Children born in France as from Monday will now receive eleven compulsory vaccines, up from three prior compulsory shots, or risk being barred from French nurseries or schools; the French government's announcement seeks to stamp-out growing nationwide skepticism towards vaccines and one of the world's highest vaccine rejection rates.
French minister of Solidarity and Health, Agnes Buzyn, announced the measure seeking to extend vaccine coverage further than the current 70 percent of child population already vaccinated.
"I do not like to impose obligations, it goes against my character but with vaccinations it is justified" Buzyn pointed out adding that no repressive measures had been taken out against non-complying parents apart from warning them they won't be able to enroll their children at any creches, nurseries, schools or Summer camps, both private or public.
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
Government already has swathes of emergency powers they can activate if required, including over public health matters such as highly contagious epidemics. So compelling parents to facilitate the vaccinations of their children isn't beyond reason.
Ultimately it is down to the social contract - if someone refuses to play their part in preventing disease through reasonable steps like vaccination, then government can step in to deal with it for the greater good. If we can eradicate viral diseases we should - and that means everyone gets vaccinated unless they have a valid medical exemption.
Typhoid Mary is relevant here - she was locked up as she posed a direct threat the the safety of the community.
If a anti-vaxxer family lived on a tiny remote island somewhere then it might be less of an issue ,but most of us live in towns and cities so have to play our part in controlling disease.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Being against giving them wrongly is pretty low on the reservations scale tbf.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I think a bit part of the anti-vaxxers "success" lies in the breakdown of the social contract to start with.
You don't fix something that is broken by damaging it further.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
What do you mean by ‘forcibly vaccinate a child’?
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
Yeah, I agree. It's such a shame that a simple and highly effective intervention like vaccination has been mired in this absurd 'debate', when our collective efforts as a species could be devoted to other worthwhile causes.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Do we want to be like Japan was right into the 1990s, where people who were deemed unfit to breed were forcibly sterilised?
It is absolutely unconscionable that the state should have the right to vaccinate by force.
From this thread you don't have to scratch terribly deep into the left wing liberals for their totalitarian instincts to be revealed.
Anyone who feels that forcible vaccination is in any way right needs to have a real good look at their morals, or lack of them.
It is absolutely unconscionable that the state should have the right to vaccinate by force.
From this thread you don't have to scratch terribly deep into the left wing liberals for their totalitarian instincts to be revealed.
Anyone who feels that forcible vaccination is in any way right needs to have a real good look at their morals, or lack of them.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Read back on the thread.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
No don’t dodge. Are you talking about vaccinating against parents wishes (which isn’t really ‘forcible’) or against the child’s wishes?
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
We already forcibly inject children.
Some incredible naivety on this thread.
Some incredible naivety on this thread.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Like thalidomide you mean?
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Post #57.
Post #60.
Post #71
Yes, I am aware of medication forcibly being administered to a patient who has, or is about to be sectioned. I have done it.
I wasn't comfortable with it then, and am even less so now.
I'm not not agin vaccination of children, absolutely the opposite, but some of the things being said on this thread are horrific.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Kind of a fair point (ish). They tried to forcibly take blood from me when I was 9 and had a phobia of needles. Didn't go well; they got a social worker in to talk to me before having a second go.
Vaccinating against the parents' wishes will involve taking the kid away from the parents, which opens several cans of worms. If you're going to ditch ideas about consent and responsibilities to other people in favour of the use of force, you're also going to have interesting times the first time one of these kids has a strong adverse reaction to a vaccination.
Knowledge of the pharmacodynamics of racemic isomers increased greatly after that. Drug is still in use, for leprosy and other auto immune disorders.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Where a parent or guardian takes a child for routine vaccinations, that is the norm. A position whereby the state can remove a child from parental care and vaccinate them is a completely different matter.
I don't have the answer, I wish I did. Loss of herd immunity for measles is frightening, ditto mumps.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Trials are winding up for several disorders, including some cancers...
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Which is basically compulsory vaccination for the vast majority of parents.
I see no different between a court ordering the vaccination of a child against the wishes of some anti-vaxxer nutjob parent, and a court ordering a blood transfusion against the wishes of some Jehovah's Witness nutjob parent.
A tiny percentage of parents are happy to risk the lives of their children, because of their stupid beliefs, the children's right to life trumps those nutjob's beliefs.
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