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Re-opening Schools?

SpookyFrank said:
Again, these extra staff don't really exist. I'm starting my first PGCE placement next week and I fully expect to be on covid marshall duties the whole time and doing fuck all actual teaching, still less learning anything myself.

Anecdotally teachers are already doing jobs like bus dispatching that they don't have time to do and aren't paid for.
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Hopefully not. Our trainee teachers are managing to get in the classroom.
It doesn't seem to be not enough teachers for classroom bubbles at my son's school, it was more to do with health and safety, first aid etc. So one imagines troops of support staff could be trained up and sent in, although not sure this is necessary because there are loads of teaching and support staff agencies with staff but schools don't have the budgets to get them in. Hence gov money.
 
Education has been "completely disrupted" by the sheer scale of Covid absences in some schools in some areas, Ofsted regional bosses have warned.

The regional directors for North-West England and the West Midlands say the impact of rules around self-isolation has significantly impacted attendance.

They highlight areas where hundreds of pupils are absent and self-isolating at a time, some again and again.

Ofsted says some areas will have seen relatively little impact this term.
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www.bbc.co.uk

Ofsted points to total school disruption in some areas

Regional Ofsted bosses say schooling has been 'completely disrupted' by Covid-19 in some areas.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
My grandson is 4, his nursery has two positive cases and he is identified as a child who has been in close contact with the infected adult. He has to isolate for 14 days and guidance on the gov.uk website for adults says not to leave the house at all. His mother is a single parent, already working from home. Presumably the child cannot shuttle between there and his father’s house, nor come to me (I’m my daughter’s childcare bubble), but he can use his own garden?
 
Local school has 15 teachers off school and isolating. 6 have tested positive. One class year of pupils has been sent home to isolate for 2 weeks.
The rest of the school is open..
We have just come out of level 5 restrictions and are now in level 3.
There is a strong likelihood that numbers will start to increase again within 3 weeks and we will be back into level 5 restrictions and worse by mid January.
People just dont seem to understand that this virus is opportunistic and very much still in the community.
I feel schools will end up closing in January if / when the situation worsens.
 
20Bees said:
My grandson is 4, his nursery has two positive cases and he is identified as a child who has been in close contact with the infected adult. He has to isolate for 14 days and guidance on the gov.uk website for adults says not to leave the house at all. His mother is a single parent, already working from home. Presumably the child cannot shuttle between there and his father’s house, nor come to me (I’m my daughter’s childcare bubble), but he can use his own garden?
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I understand he is allowed to go to his dad's. I haven't seen anything specifically banning the childcare bubble, especially if you go to his house - but it terms of reducing the risk of spread it's better if he stays at home and has as little contact with other people as possible.
 
Thora said:
I understand he is allowed to go to his dad's. I haven't seen anything specifically banning the childcare bubble, especially if you go to his house - but it terms of reducing the risk of spread it's better if he stays at home and has as little contact with other people as possible.
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In this case I would definitely expect dad to share the load.
 
nagapie said:
In this case I would definitely expect dad to share the load.
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I haven’t found anything on the gov.uk website specifically about self-isolating pre-school children. His whole class - or room, as nursery call it - is to stay home
 
20Bees said:
I haven’t found anything on the gov.uk website specifically about self-isolating pre-school children. His whole class - or room, as nursery call it - is to stay home
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But children during lockdown could go between parents. So I think as he's isolating, not positive, he can be looked after by both. And even if he was positive, I'd expect both parents to look after him.
 
This is very much a non-teacher's/non-parent's question coming up now.

But I've been catching up with the last ten or so page of this thread, and most of the more recent posts -- about pupil-group closures and isolation of various categories of pupil groups in various schools -- genuinely make me wonder!!

Wonder, that is, whether closures of entire schools -- or at least a doubling of the length of half-term a few weeks ago -- would have been so much worse than how nightmareish things seem to have turned out now??

I'm asking in the hope that teachers and parents posting can (politely?) put me right and explain thigs a bit, if my 'wondering' above is a load of bollocks :oops:

I would genuinely like to know though.

A few parents, and a fair few more grandparents where I work are talking a lot just now about pupil groups/classroom groups, etc., being sent home. And various teachers also having to isolate.
 
There's no guarantee that doubling half term would have had much if any impact on school bubbles being sent home. One week and then service would have resumed as normal with an extra long half term and bubbles closing. In fact Wales had a double half term didn't it? And they're currently seeing an upturn in cases. As a parent and a teacher, I don't want to see schools closed for extra periods. Independent Sage made a report a week or so ago on how to keep schools safe and stressed that they didn't want to see schools closed because of all the problems it creates socially.
 
nagapie said:
Independent Sage made a report a week or so ago on how to keep schools safe and stressed that they didn't want to see schools closed because of all the problems it creates socially.
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Its full of recommendations that will be difficult, cant be done, wont be done, wont be funded, or that people will still moan about. For example increasing staff numbers seems somewhat implausible, and what they call for will involve more home learning for secondary school children, not less.


Key conclusions, action points and responsibilities:
Measures
  1. Distancing: Smaller classes are needed in primary schools to make distancing more successful. Secondary schools should reorganise to minimise contact between different classes, and prevent opportunities for infection outside the classroom such as school transport, lunchtimes, and gatherings to enter rooms. Many secondary schools in areas with high levels of infection will need to introduce a blend between on-site and home-based learning. [page 3 and appendix A]
  2. Ventilation: Good levels of ventilation are necessary, through opening windows or ventilation / heating systems using entirely new air. Students should be encouraged to wear warm outdoor clothing, regardless of normal uniform requirements, with warm clothing supplied to children in need. [page 4]
    1. Face coverings: Schools should make sure that children have face coverings of good quality. Secondary school students should be encouraged to wear them in classrooms and elsewhere in the school. [page 5]
    2. Bubbles: Consistent self-contained groups are essential for reducing infections and tracing possible contacts. In secondary schools, these should be much smaller than the entire year group. [page 6]
    3. Self-isolation: In the case of infections, the bubble should form the basis for isolating contacts. Self-isolation must not be restricted to children sitting next to each other or in sustained contact. [page 6]
    4. Testing: All staff and students within a bubble should be tested where they are positive cases, regardless of whether they are showing symptoms. [page 7]
    5. Learning resources: Home-based learning should be supported with textbooks and other books, as well as IT. Sufficient funding and resourcing must be provided for young people in low-income families. [page7]
    6. Examinations: Schools need to focus on learning and wellbeing, without sources of stress. Standardised tests and exams can't run fairly when some schools have been affected worse than others. Primary school tests should be cancelled, and secondary school exams replaced with assessment by teachers, with suitable moderation. [page 8]
    7. Wellbeing: Creative thinking is needed to ensure that young people are able to socialise safely. The threat of removal from school rolls or fines for non-attendance should be removed where there are medically vulnerable people in a family. [pages 8-9]
  3. 10. Transparency: Clear information should be provided to all stakeholders and organisations to aid intelligent response to infections. [page 9]
    11. Advice and support: Local public health teams should become the primary source of advice and support for schools. [page 9]
    12. Staff: The welfare and morale of teaching and other staff is vital to sustainable provision. Those who are clinically vulnerable should be enabled to work from home where possible.
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Responsibilities
In order to implement this plan of action, Central Government, Ofsted, local authorities, academy trusts, and headteachers and governors, should adopt responsibilities as below:
Central government must:
  •  recognise and fund local public health teams as the first source of advice for schools
  •  ensure that testing is fully available, without the need to show symptoms
  •  provide funding for additional accommodation and staff to reduce class size
  1. iii
    •  accept that some secondary schools will need a blend of on-site and home-based learning to sustain full-time education
    •  make an early announcement to cancel primary school tests and make alternative arrangements for GCSEs and A-levels
    •  provide additional funding to schools to cover needs such as supply cover, ventilation, face coverings, books, ICT, CPD for teaching staff.
    •  make funding available to specialist subject associations to provide resources for home-based learning
      Ofsted schools inspectorate must:
    •  continue to review the overall quality of health and safety, and the availability of learning resources, and disseminate good practice
    •  avoid inspections of individual schools except where absolutely necessary.
      Local authorities must:
    •  develop capacity so that local public health teams can provide advice and support to all schools, and work cooperatively with the Health and Safety Executive, and health and safety and trade union representatives in schools
    •  systematically monitor all schools in their area, however governed, working cooperatively with academy trusts as appropriate
      Headteachers and governors must:
    •  draw up a plan for moving forward, highlighting budgetary and resource needs
    •  ensure staff and parents are informed of infections and risks, in order to respond intelligently to
      changing situations
    •  work with health and safety and trade union representatives to safeguard the welfare of staff,
      students and the wider community
    •  avoid putting undue pressure on parents who have decided that attendance could endanger
      medically vulnerable family members.
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nagapie said:
There's no guarantee that doubling half term would have had much if any impact on school bubbles being sent home. One week and then service would have resumed as normal with an extra long half term and bubbles closing. In fact Wales had a double half term didn't it? And they're currently seeing an upturn in cases. As a parent and a teacher, I don't want to see schools closed for extra periods. Independent Sage made a report a week or so ago on how to keep schools safe and stressed that they didn't want to see schools closed because of all the problems it creates socially.
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No, Wales didn't have a double half term, just a few areas (such as Pembrokeshire) which worked an extra week in the summer.
 
elbows said:
Its full of recommendations that will be difficult, cant be done, wont be done, wont be funded, or that people will still moan about. For example increasing staff numbers seems somewhat implausible, and what they call for will involve more home learning for secondary school children, not less.

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The fact that the government won't even admit the problems in schools nevermind fund what's necessary is in keeping with every aspect of how they've handled the crisis.
Learning would be blended for secondary so they'd still be in school. And perhaps if the other measures were in place, blending wouldn't need to be mean too much reduced school time.
I'm not in favour of schools closing, I think that's pretty clear. Especially when retail and pubs/restaurants are open and Christmas is allowed.
 
A lot of the recommendations are for things that should have been worked on over summer and implemented from the start of term. The lack of effort or care in that regard makes me think they wont bother with any of those things now, they will just expect schools to muddle through, with perhaps one or two major changes to come if the situation forces them to go further.

A lot of it boils down to making bubbles smaller, and providing testing for all who are in a bubble that ends up with cases, very much including people with no symptoms. When no serious attempts are made to do this, there arent many other recommendations left for me to get my teeth into.

They cant be bothered, wont provide the funding and there is no sign that the proper testing system capacity is going to increase to the point where people without symptoms are going to be tested (which is why they are using lateral flow tests with less reliability when doing broader community testing that includes asymptomatic people).

I wouldnt have opened pubs and restaurants at this time, and I would have shut them a while before the term even started to create more wiggle room for education within in the broader infection picture.

I will crunch some numbers at some point to see if I can get a better idea about recent infection levels in school aged children in different regions.
 
Absolutely. And now when we should get a two week break, Christmas is going to happen. Keeping schools open should be the priority.
 
Sister (primary school teacher) has just finished her third 14 day isolation/quarantine due to colleagues testing positive.

Niece1 started her second 14 day isolation/quarantine this term on Thursday last week.

Niece2 went back last week after her second isolation/quarantine this term.
 
My school is closed for all 600 students. 8 colleagues positive in the last few days. It seems that it's been all adult to adult transmission. This is because it is impossible to follow the risk assessment, our school isn't big enough.
Youngest son's bubble sent home today for rest of term.
Yes, schools are going down. There are virtually any proper safety practices in place.
 
And elsewhere in south London. After several outbreaks last week among students we have had to send home all of the sixth form and year eleven, all of year eight, and two classes of year seven. In addition, most of my faculty is isolating again because one of the music lot tested positive. He went to the pub on Friday with one of the drama teachers, someone from English and one chap from MFL. Then he went round his girlfriend’s flat, and she happens to share a place with one of the dance staff.
Meanwhile almost all of Humanities are not just off but have tested positive!

And then I developed a sore throat, and slight cough. I haven’t had contact with any of the above, and because all my classes were doing remote lessons today I went in, though I sat in a room on my own all day. Over the afternoon I developed a splitting headache and a temperature of 38... so given the “plague pit” context I thought I should book a test. I had to lie as my symptoms don’t meet those on the govt criteria list. My cough is not persistent m, my temperature is half a degree too low, my headache and sore throat - despite anecdotally being possible symptoms are apparently neither here nor there.

But honestly. It would feel so irresponsible to continue working! In a school!

The walk in test centre (in the car park of Crystal Palace Park) is a tunnel of freezing cold tents manned by people that seem strangely like club bouncers or xmas tree salesmen. It was unpleasant but I was ushered in straight away to read to instructions on the wall and test myself. Within 36 hours, they reckon, for the results.
 
spanglechick , my life mirrors your post almost exactly. I have also had to take a test after being the only non isolating person in my department and now have unwell but not official covid symptoms.
 
spanglechick said:
And elsewhere in south London. After several outbreaks last week among students we have had to send home all of the sixth form and year eleven, all of year eight, and two classes of year seven. In addition, most of my faculty is isolating again because one of the music lot tested positive. He went to the pub on Friday with one of the drama teachers, someone from English and one chap from MFL. Then he went round his girlfriend’s flat, and she happens to share a place with one of the dance staff.
Meanwhile almost all of Humanities are not just off but have tested positive!

And then I developed a sore throat, and slight cough. I haven’t had contact with any of the above, and because all my classes were doing remote lessons today I went in, though I sat in a room on my own all day. Over the afternoon I developed a splitting headache and a temperature of 38... so given the “plague pit” context I thought I should book a test. I had to lie as my symptoms don’t meet those on the govt criteria list. My cough is not persistent m, my temperature is half a degree too low, my headache and sore throat - despite anecdotally being possible symptoms are apparently neither here nor there.

But honestly. It would feel so irresponsible to continue working! In a school!

The walk in test centre (in the car park of Crystal Palace Park) is a tunnel of freezing cold tents manned by people that seem strangely like club bouncers or xmas tree salesmen. It was unpleasant but I was ushered in straight away to read to instructions on the wall and test myself. Within 36 hours, they reckon, for the results.
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You definitely did the right thing. I got tested on much milder symptoms (as my son was being tested with full blown symptoms) because I wanted to be able to prove that I was okay to keep working in a school and the pcm asked me to when I told her I was taking my son. Given the amount of covid in your school and your other risk factors you have every right to get it checked out. Hope you're okay anyway.

The guy who shepherded us through the test had a nightclub bouncer vibea bout him too but I think it's the arms folded pose (so as not to be randomly touching things) that does it. He actually said his main job was as a careworker.


The school I work in is doing quite well it seems though it's outside London in an area with less cases. We've got a dozen or so teachers isolating and about half of year ten have been sent home. Some teachers are teaching from home by videolink which is impressive to see. The effect of the pandemic on the kids generally is enormous too. There are mass absences due to covid anxiety, some kids insist on wearing masks all day (which is really annoying when thety're answering a question and all I can hear is muffled mumbling) and there's a girl in my form group who refuses to sit at tables with other kids and spends all day stood in corners at least two metres away from everyone.
 
maomao said:
some kids insist on wearing masks all day (which is really annoying when thety're answering a question and all I can hear is muffled mumbling)
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This is what any 15 year old sounds like, with or without a mask.

and there's a girl in my form group who refuses to sit at tables with other kids and spends all day stood in corners at least two metres away from everyone.
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Good on her.
 
The school I'm working in is relatively normal. Kids still move between classrooms so science is taught in science labs etc. The timetable is largely unchanged. But this is only possible because it's a small school in the middle of nowhere which has seen just three covid cases since September and no transmission amongst students or staff. This despite the fact that staff, wearing masks, are allowed to actually move among the kids and engage with them and their work.

Reports from elsewhere sound like hell on earth. Teachers in some schools are expected to teach two and a half hour lessons, and then spend their breaktimes out in the cold policing students' every movement. No books can be marked, no engagement with individual students is possible. I struggle to see what the point is of kids being in school in those circumstances tbh. And those cicrumstances seem to apply in most schools in the country. Bleak as fuck :(
 
nyxx said:
Of course she’d be unhappy. It sounds like her idea of what’s safe is completely at odds with what her school is expecting of her so she’s having to go against it. Must be really horrible for her.
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I believe she's getting attention from pupil and family services though they're understandably busy and no teacher has demanded she sit down or do anything she doesn't feel comfortable with. The rooms are well ventilated and the form room in particular is a large woodwork room where she could grab a whole workbench to herself. Meanwhile more worryingly the boys at the other end of the room constantly wrestle with each other, forget their masks regularly and have been heard whispering that covid isn't real.
 
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