Re-opening Schools?

[planetgeli]

Johnson and Williamson are making a complete hash of handling this but they are right about one thing. Children and especially those from more deprived backgrounds will lose out if they don't return to school and the longer it goes on the worst it will get.

Yes. This will be the same Williamson who offered laptops for deprived 15 year olds on the 18th April. Those laptops never materialised. The longer it goes on, the worse it will get.

I'm fairly sick of a lot of this. I'm sick of the government getting some sort of kudos for pretending to stick up for deprived pupils while not actually doing anything that merits that kudos. And I'm sick of teaching staff being tarred with the brush of not caring because they dare to speak out in wanting proper hygiene provision, a part of which is PPE. When we ask for that we are told we are putting PPE above everything else, when the reality is we are asking for it alongside everything else. If I go in a shop in England I have to wear a mask. I've just been to my GP surgery and seen someone turned away for not having a mask. But when I go back to school next week I am being told to remove my mask before I enter my disease transmission centre.

We all want pupils back and those of us who work with the most deprived pupils understand better than Williamson ever could do how much it will affect that cohort if they don't return. But we work in schools and we know how schools spread disease. We want schools back safely for everyone. I don't see why asking for that simple thing should mean we have it turned around on us every time that we are the ones blocking deprived pupils returning.

Johnson and Williamson are not concerned about deprived children, if they were they'd do something about deprivation. They are cynically using this against unions when their real concern is the economy. It pisses me off they are being given credit for being right about anything.

Now, about those laptops...

 

[Steel Icarus]

Posted also in the Corona in the UK thread but deffo fits here too:

Exclusive: England set to U-turn on masks in schools

Tes understands that the government is set to announce that wearing face masks will be near-mandatory in communal areas of secondary schools in England

www.tes.com

 

[brogdale]

Posted also in the Corona in the UK thread but deffo fits here too:

Exclusive: England set to U-turn on masks in schools

Tes understands that the government is set to announce that wearing face masks will be near-mandatory in communal areas of secondary schools in England

www.tes.com

Following contemporary UK politics is becoming easier; listen carefully to what any representative of the Johnson regime says and the polar opposite will result.

 

[gaijingirl]

What fucking social distance? I work in an office designed for 4 people and shared by 9!

Well that's every London school really. Fuck-all space. Not that I get the impression that any of the people making these decisions have been into a school recently.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Not that I get the impression that any of the people making these decisions have been into a school recently.

Or at least not a school that the great unwashed have to attend. Just look at the complete lack of any kind of accounting for the up-close personal work that TAs do in state schools with children with learning difficulties.

 

[NoXion]

Why the fuck would the government want to claim that masks are unnecessary? I just don't fucking get it. It's not like anyone worth listening to is claiming that masks are a panacea or a substitute for other measures. It would cost them nothing. Is it just bourgeois stubbornness?

 

[planetgeli]

Why the fuck would the government want to claim that masks are unnecessary? I just don't fucking get it. It's not like anyone worth listening to is claiming that masks are a panacea or a substitute for other measures. It would cost them nothing. Is it just bourgeois stubbornness?

I'm assuming they object to the extra £33.50 it will cost to supply masks which is obviously a tipping point over the £100 billion this has cost so far.

Yesterday I went past Next. Two floors, roughly the size of about 6 school classrooms that would hold 180 pupils.

Big sign on the door - "Maximum of 33 people in shop at one time".

 

[NoXion]

I'm assuming they object to the extra £33.50 it will cost to supply masks which is obviously a tipping point over the £100 billion this has cost so far.

But the extra deaths and illness will surely cost more than that?

I struggle to understand how those fucking Oxbridge twats think, in a "how fucking stupid and arrogant are they" kind of sense, not because they actually seem smart or anything.

 

[planetgeli]

But the extra deaths and illness will surely cost more than that?

I struggle to understand how those fucking Oxbridge twats think, in a "how fucking stupid and arrogant are they" kind of sense, not because they actually seem smart or anything.

Indeed. I don't have an answer. But I do feel like I'm living in an alternative universe a lot lately. Where peak stupidity and peak callousness somehow get plaudits. And peak brazenness in the form of Jenrick's housing fraud (nicely forgotten by most, was only £40 million after all) and, fuck me, Cumming's Downing Street garden TV spectacular.

The arrogance is off the scale.

 

[Cloo]

I don't get why not masks in school, certainly secondary. Honestly it seems to me that it makes more sense to wear them in schools or when visiting friends/family than it does in a shop where you're not in there for all that long and are moving around all the time.

 

[agricola]

Why the fuck would the government want to claim that masks are unnecessary? I just don't fucking get it. It's not like anyone worth listening to is claiming that masks are a panacea or a substitute for other measures. It would cost them nothing. Is it just bourgeois stubbornness?

This all stems from them still not having any actual plan, or (at best) not having exercised the plan to understand what they should do in the event of these things happening. Combine that with the centralization of decision making and you probably have multiple departments asking No.10 "what do we do" and getting the annoyed NO response of some overpromoted toff who thinks making a decision is the defining characteristic of leadership.

If they had a plan and worked out how to implement it, this issue would not have arisen - they'd have understood how to respond to it (FWIW it would probably have involved keeping schools open, ensuring an appropriate number of supply teachers were on hand, ensuring rapid testing for any kid / member of staff who might have been exposed and appropriate financial support for the affected households). Instead they are being stupid, both over this and the rather more potentially catastrophic thing that is "kids are fine, they aren't at any risk".

 

[8ball]

This all stems from them still not having any actual plan...

I think this covers it.

 

[brogdale]

Good tweet:

 

[planetgeli]

Pupils in England will no longer be advised against using face masks in secondary schools after Boris Johnson made an 11th-hour U-turn days before students head back to the classroom.

But before you go thinking the Tories have gone sensible.

The change risks a major backlash from Conservative MPs, some of whom had publicly challenged him not to change tack for schools in England. One said the idea of pupils wearing masks in schools went “way too far”

Huw Merriman, the Tory MP for Bexhill and Battle and chair of the transport select committee, said masks in schools would “further downgrade the learning environment. Like every other risk in our daily lives, we need to embed Covid and proportionately live with it.”


The Tory backbencher Marcus Fysh said: “Masks should be banned in schools. The country should be getting back to normal not pandering to this scientifically illiterate guff,” he said. “ It is time to end the fear. And keep it away from our kids thank you very much.”

Boris Johnson drops advice against face mask use in English schools

Boris Johnson makes another coronavirus U-turn days before return to classrooms

www.theguardian.com

 

[elbows]

The Tory backbencher Marcus Fysh said: “Masks should be banned in schools. The country should be getting back to normal not pandering to this scientifically illiterate guff,” he said. “ It is time to end the fear. And keep it away from our kids thank you very much.”

Fysh has form, the following quote is from well before the pandemic:

Economist and political blogger Alex Andreou said Mr Fysh was arrogant and smug, and showed "impenetrable stupidity" on the show, while local Lib Dem candidate Mick Clark said the Yeovil MP is "detached from reality".

100s of angry people attack MP 'detached from reality' after TV show

The Somerset MP has come in for some stick after appearing on Newsnight

www.somersetlive.co.uk

 

[Badgers]

Boris Johnson makes U-turn and abandons face masks advice for secondary schools

The government announces the policy shift for England after Scottish pupils were told to wear face coverings in corridors.

news.sky.com

 

[cupid_stunt]

It was clear this U-turn was coming, the WHO changed their advice over the weekend, Sturgeon signalled on Monday that a change in the guidance was imminent in Scotland, then confirmed the position was changing on Tuesday. Johnson, in an interview during the day yesterday, said they were looking at the changing scientific advice, and confirmed it late yesterday, as did Northern Ireland, I am sure Wales will do the same today.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Boris Johnson makes U-turn and abandons face masks advice for secondary schools

The government announces the policy shift for England after Scottish pupils were told to wear face coverings in corridors.

news.sky.com

Just read that, so it's only mandatory in certain areas and up to schools in other areas.

Face coverings will be mandatory in communal areas and corridors for children in towns and cities that are subject to stricter coronavirus restrictions

But while headteachers will retain discretion over the use of face masks in schools in other parts of England, the government will drop guidance that they should not be used.

Bit fucking wishy washy isn't it?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Bit fucking wishy washy isn't it?

This is the response to pretty much every single announcement they’ve made since the start of this entire shitshow.

 

[elbows]

Johnson speaks.

The rain in Scotland falls mainly on the people who are too slow to learn the lessons of this pandemic.

"What they found [in Scotland] was that it was raining outside, people were coming in and they were congregating in the corridors and the move to face coverings they thought was sensible," he said.

Also:

He said wearing them in classrooms would be "nonsensical" because "you can't teach" or "expect people to learn with face coverings".

You cant teach a stubborn Tory how to come to terms with the important role of masks, or expect them to learn about face coverings without dragging their heels and disrupting the whole class of 2020-21.

I'm having to break the link because otherwise the forum is breaking it by thinking its media BBC - Home /news/live/world-53913625

 

[quimcunx]

Well there has been an outbreak in kings park dundee and the day after hugging my niece every day for a week I've found out 1 pupil at her dundee school has also tested positive. Great.

 

[andysays]

Is there a sensible medical reason why they couldn't test all pupils and staff before returning to school, say the week before so the results were available before they actually returned?

I know this wouldn't eliminate all risk, but it would surely help to reduce it significantly.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Is there a sensible medical reason why they couldn't test all pupils and staff before returning to school, say the week before so the results were available before they actually returned?

I know this wouldn't eliminate all risk, but it would surely help to reduce it significantly.

There's around 9 million pupils in English schools, so that would be impossible.

 

[elbows]

And they still havent got the test capacity to even implement the care home testing regime they promised ages ago.

 

[thismoment]

Lots of school children take the bus to school. I wonder what will happen to the rules regarding limited number of passengers allowed on buses at a time. I guess the buses will just end up at normal capacity as can’t see the number of buses increasing, well either that or more walking to school?

 

[andysays]

There's around 9 million pupils in English schools, so that would be impossible.

And they still havent got the test capacity to even implement the care home testing regime they promised ages ago.

I take those points, but those are logistical reasons rather than medical ones. They've had months to prepare for this, but seem not to have done this or many of the other things that could have been done.

So, does anyone know under what circumstances/for what reason the various pupils who have been reported as testing positive since returning to school have been tested?

 

[elbows]

Well logistics matter and I dont think even a competent government would be able to test 9 million in a short space of time. The USA, which I am certainly not mentioning as an example of a competent government, peaked at under a million tests in a single day and has fallen back to more like 600-700 thousand per day more recently.

Medical orthodoxy would rarely dream of desiring such a thing either, it would not be considered necessary and appropriate, and even epidemiology in this country learnt over very many decades to live with sentinel surveillance systems rather than comprehensive, mass scale diagnostics testing. Now its certainly true that the orthodox approach is partly responsible for the poor response in the first place, but it was quickly forced to adapt considerably after the traditional approach went down in flames. But these adaptations still have to work within the bounds of deliverable logistics rather than impossible ideals.

Dont get me wrong, ideally in a pandemic we would have routine, regular testing for huge amounts of people in all the important scenarios. There is no sign of that happening because the numbers involved would be eyewatering. I still hope the situation improves via other sorts of testing coming online and then hopefully scaling up, eg I would like a bunch more saliva spit tests with impressive turnaround times.

Progress has not been good enough and most of the points reports have made about what needed to be done during summer to prepare for the challenges of autumn/winter have not been dealt with to anything like a satisfactory degree. Unless levels of general viral circulation remain low, these failings are likely to be exposed in a big way.

 

[sheothebudworths]

I take those points, but those are logistical reasons rather than medical ones. They've had months to prepare for this, but seem not to have done this or many of the other things that could have been done.

So, does anyone know under what circumstances/for what reason the various pupils who have been reported as testing positive since returning to school have been tested?

I just read that they are offering every school a total of TEN testing kits each before the wide reopening starting on Tuesday, so whatever the existing circumstances that have led to tests in Scotland, they're not applying them here. Monday is a bank holiday, too.


English schools to receive just 10 coronavirus testing kits each

Sally Weale
Schools in England are to receive just 10 Covid testing kits each ahead of the start of the autumn term next week, the government has revealed.
The kits were part of the government’s attempts to reassure anxious parents and staff that every possible measure was being taken to make the return to school as safe as possible, but the volume of tests available to schools has been described as “completely inadequate”.
Schools will also receive “a small amount” of personal protective equipment including clinical face masks, aprons, gloves, visors and hand sanitiser in a one-off delivery, provided free of charge by the Department of Health and Social Care.
School standards minister Nick Gibb said:

All pupils are returning to school for the start of the autumn term – delivering on our national priority to get all pupils back to the classroom, which is the best place for their education, development and wellbeing.
“This week schools and colleges will begin to receive their first home testing kits as well as personal protective equipment to use in the very rare situations in which it may be required.
“I hope this acts as additional reassurance to parents that schools are ready to welcome children back to school, adding to the growing parental confidence shown in recent opinion polls.”

Dr Mary Bousted, joint general secretary of the National Education Union, said: “If the government says Covid testing kits will be available in schools then they need to be available in the right volume in order that they can be effectively used. If it’s 10 per school then it’s completely inadequate. The government is losing all credibility.”
According to Department for Education guidance, schools can request more test kits if required but they should only be
offered in exceptional circumstances where an individual may not be able to access a test elsewhere. Students and staff should ordinarily visit a testing site.

ETA, from the Guardian feed (think I saw it in a broader article, too - will have a look)...
Included here - Confusion over face masks as some schools in England could relax rules within days

 

[sheothebudworths]

Tbf, I have enjoyed the couple of pics from his visits today when he is suddenly pretending to give a fuck -






Scathing teens

 

[brogdale]

I just read that they are offering every school a total of TEN testing kits each before the wide reopening starting on Tuesday, so whatever the existing circumstances that have led to tests in Scotland, they're not applying them here. Monday is a bank holiday, too.

ETA, from the Guardian feed (think I saw it in a broader artcile, too - will have a look)...

English schools to receive just 10 coronavirus testing kits each

Sally Weale
Schools in England are to receive just 10 Covid testing kits each ahead of the start of the autumn term next week, the government has revealed.
The kits were part of the government’s attempts to reassure anxious parents and staff that every possible measure was being taken to make the return to school as safe as possible, but the volume of tests available to schools has been described as “completely inadequate”.
Schools will also receive “a small amount” of personal protective equipment including clinical face masks, aprons, gloves, visors and hand sanitiser in a one-off delivery, provided free of charge by the Department of Health and Social Care.
School standards minister Nick Gibb said:

Dr Mary Bousted, joint general secretary of the National Education Union, said: “If the government says Covid testing kits will be available in schools then they need to be available in the right volume in order that they can be effectively used. If it’s 10 per school then it’s completely inadequate. The government is losing all credibility.”
According to Department for Education guidance, schools can request more test kits if required but they should only be
offered in exceptional circumstances where an individual may not be able to access a test elsewhere. Students and staff should ordinarily visit a testing site.

Minister looks into camera...I've ensured that our robust system has sent testing kits and PPE into every school in England...whingeing fucking Marxist teachers...