Re-opening Schools?

[spanglechick]

But, there's nothing in that report that suggest the teachers caught it from a child.

Why does it matter? The nature of the post Covid school is that teachers will be in and out of different rooms, using different computers all day. It’s now less safe as a workplace than before lockdown because of the measures introduced to protect the students.

 

[Badgers]

What sort of response has she had to offering remote learning?, Mrs Q school has also been offering remote learning and whilst it started off without about 70-80% of the kids turn up for online lessons this quite rapidly fell to more like 30-40% quite quickly.
This is a school rated 'excellent' as well with motivated kids and pushy parents aplenty.

During term time it was very high but I didn't ask for %. They keep remote learning (to a smaller degree) through the summer holidays to support kids who might have missed school or are behind so the last 5-6 weeks have been less so.

 

[brogdale]

Whilst I think we can all agree that an earlier lock-down would have saved a hell of a lot of lives, I am struggling with the logic of connecting that with the current situation of 'persistent community transmission', when countries that locked-down earlier are reporting larger spikes in new cases than the UK.

I was reading a report on the Republic of Ireland earlier, they went into lock-down ahead of us, and was considered to be doing very well, but their 7-day average of new cases, adjusted for population size, is now running at around 35% more than the UK.

They are still moving towards re-opening schools, together with all four of the UK nations, and most of Europe, although I accept the devil will be in the details of how different countries are actually managing it.

Dunno about that; by international comparison the UK is pretty poor.

 

[elbows]

They were hoping to get the general levels of virus in the community down to much lower levels in the summer than has been achieved, in order that the challenges of autumn/winter and schools reopening could begin with the benefit of a much lower infection level starting point.

 

[andysays]

They were hoping to get the general levels of virus in the community down to much lower levels in the summer than has been achieved, in order that the challenges of autumn/winter and schools reopening could begin with the benefit of a much lower infection level starting point.

But having clearly failed to get infection levels down to a reasonable point, they've decided to push ahead anyway, either because not to do so would be a sign of weakness, or because they're not that concerned if infection and death rates go up further as a direct result of schools reopening.

 

[brogdale]

But having clearly failed to get infection levels down to a reasonable point, they've decided to push ahead anyway, either because not to do so would be a sign of weakness, or because they're not that concerned if infection and death rates go up further as a direct result of schools reopening.

It's about freeing workers from child-care in order to drive their accumulation again.

 

[elbows]

But having clearly failed to get infection levels down to a reasonable point, they've decided to push ahead anyway, either because not to do so would be a sign of weakness, or because they're not that concerned if infection and death rates go up further as a direct result of schools reopening.

Yes I am not a fan of their approach or the couple of idiots on this forum who think there is low risk from schools and that we should press on regardless.

This week will probably feature some wriggling over the issue of mask wearing in schools for older children, since the WHO changed their stance on that and Scotland is making noises about possibly calling for masks in this setting too.

 

[alex_]

My sister teaches quite a lot of said children and they have kept their schools open throughout lockdown. When not at school she has been offering remote learning and support to said children. All the staff at her school have been doing the same.

it’ll be more deprived kids who won’t have been engaging with remote school, and the middle classes who will have been - and private school kids who’ve been doing remote online lessons delivered by the same teachers since March.

compare the top 5% ( already ahead and no change in education since March ) and the bottom 5% ( already behind and no education since March )

This is why they want everyone back at school - the stats will be terrible

 

[redsquirrel]

Dunno about that; by international comparison the UK is pretty poor.

Overall absolutely. And I agree that the push to open schools (and universities) is stupid and dangerous.

But the UK has - so far - seen a smaller rise in rate of new cases than other countries over the last couple of months. Variety of reasons for that, many probably little to do with gov decisions.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Yes I am not a fan of their approach or the couple of idiots on this forum who think there is low risk from schools and that we should press on regardless.

This week will probably feature some wriggling over the issue of mask wearing in schools for older children, since the WHO changed their stance on that and Scotland is making noises about possibly calling for masks in this setting too.

Already happening.

The use of face coverings in corridors and communal areas of secondary schools is set to be introduced in Scotland.

The government is in the "final stages" of consultations with teachers and councils about having pupils wear face coverings while moving between classes.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said she was acting in response to new guidance from the World Health Organization.

Ministers are also considering whether to make masks mandatory on school transport - but not inside classrooms.

Coronavirus: Scottish high schools to introduce new face covering rules

Ministers are consulting on the use of face coverings in corridors and communal areas in Scotland's secondaries.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[brogdale]

Overall absolutely. And I agree that the push to open schools (and universities) is stupid and dangerous.

But the UK has - so far - seen a smaller rise in rate of new cases than other countries over the last couple of months. Variety of reasons for that, many probably little to do with gov decisions.
View attachment 227707

It's a really interesting question about why that might be the case. For my own 2pworth...I suppose that population characteristics and national cultures of compliance/'rebellion' must have quite an impact?
I'm sure it's all very complex, though.

 

[redsquirrel]

It's a really interesting question about why that might be the case. For my own 2pworth...I suppose that population characteristics and national cultures of compliance/'rebellion' must have quite an impact?

Yeah probably partly that. Also I'd put quite a bit down to physical things (weather, population density & distribution) and things like term dates (German schools have started to go back of course)

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

BB1 is due to start college in 2 weeks, got an email today saying that it will be one week in college followed by a week remote learning at home, so only 50% of cohorts in at any one time. However it starts by stating that they had been hoping to hear updated guidance from government in order to come up with a working plan, but they have heard jack, cos the useless government has wasted the past few weeks screwing up A levels and GCSE's.

 

[cupid_stunt]

This is worth noting, from the link I've just posted above.

Health authorities are working to tackle a number of coronavirus "clusters" in Scotland, including one centred on the Kingspark School in Dundee.

A total of 17 members of staff have tested positive, as well as two pupils, and all households connected to the school have been told to go into self-isolation for two weeks.

A growing number of school pupils across Scotland have tested positive for Covid-19, but the government believes the infection has been transmitted in other settings such as house parties.

Ms Sturgeon said "most" transmission of the virus was not happening in schools, saying that "the risk is greater of community transmission getting into schools".

 

[andysays]

It's about freeing workers from child-care in order to drive their accumulation again.

Yeah, that as well.

My either/or post was a bit simplistic, tbh, it's a combination of various factors.

 

[Badgers]

This is why they want everyone back at school - the stats will be terrible

#worldbeating

 

[wtfftw]

This is worth noting, from the link I've just posted above.

I like the last bit. Why be concerned about community transmission getting into schools? Oh yeah, maybe because schools are communities for transmission within. Am I missing something?

 

[planetgeli]

Numbers are science too. Don't make the mistake (that the government want you to make) of thinking that any reference to 'science' is only talking about virology/epidemiology/health - behavioural and economic science are the driving factors behind most of their decisions.

These numbers have nothing to do with science, they are to do with politics and logistics.

At the end of lockdown, Wales pulled another figure, 33%, for children to return. This wasn't science either. But it caused particular concern to the SLT of schools because the logistics of organising transport for (which?) 33% and classes for (which?) 33% was deemed a nightmare and a failure once it was over.

So instead of that, in the third week of July (the last week of term), this new figure of 50% was announced. No scientific explanation was ever given for the change because it had nothing to do with science. Science wasn't saying it was safe for 50% of pupils to return, and how could it, being as schools are of differing sizes both in pupil numbers and physical space. The 50% figure was given because it was hoped 'half' was an easier number for SLTs to work with logistically.

It is nothing to do with science. The 33% figure was the Welsh government trying to get one up on England who were only introducing certain year groups and 33% of all pupils was bigger and more inclusive than that. It changed to 50% in the third week of July, to be acted on in the first two weeks of September, for reasons I've given. I know of SLTs who are still bemused by all of it.

 

[sheothebudworths]

I like the last bit. Why be concerned about community transmission getting into schools? Oh yeah, maybe because schools are communities for transmission within. Am I missing something?

The blame.

It's naughty teens going to parties (if they'd been born when I was they could've just pretended to be older and 'safely' gone to the pub ) and teachers being idiots in the staffroom, obvs - NOT that we have completely failed to reduce cases enough, with the more recent emphasis on getting us out to spend, or that schools literally only just opened in Scotland/Germany etc.

We are seeing an inevitable spread because there has been no time or effort or money put into really thinking that through, along with introducing some really thorough testing measures, and some actual fucking help around how we could sensibly work to bring in as many kids in at a time, in a way that actually protects the community.

Nah, all the 'effort' is put into paying out millions to any useless operation who's bunged the cunts some pound notes before - try chucking that money toward schools/la's to increase the workable space, their online learning and testing, maybe?

Track and trace is fucked and now we're also running out of home tests too Coronavirus home test kits run out in England and Scotland - but that egotistical, inept, corrupt cunt has been off on his hols, pretending to camp - and even Whitty and his lot seem to have given up raising even the slightest, quiet objection and are now giving advice on the basis of accepting that we must just think of the children and fuck the impact on anyone else, overriding how the kids may feel about that later, too.

 

[gaijingirl]

I especially enjoyed hearing on the news today that teachers - during their "well-earned teabreak" - should be careful to social distance and observe good hand hygiene.

What fucking teabreak?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I think they mean those 10min spent crying in the toilet.

 

[Steel Icarus]

If only I had 10 mins. I have to fit a piss, a cry and a bit of existential self-questioning into 5, and I still have to check my emails during

 

[William of Walworth]

So what's the solution then? Leave the schools closed? If so for how long? until there is a vaccine which will be the end of the next year at best. Johnson and Williamson are making a complete hash of handling this but they are right about one thing. Children and especially those from more deprived backgrounds will lose out if they don't return to school and the longer it goes on the worst it will get.

Agree with all of this post except that I think the bolded bit is too much of an assumption!

In that sentence, if you replaced your words 'which will ... ' with the words 'which in the worst case scenario, might ... ', than I wouldn't be adding this derail to the thread

Sorry!

 

[Buddy Bradley]

But the UK has - so far - seen a smaller rise in rate of new cases than other countries over the last couple of months.

Except our peak was a few weeks behind a lot of other countries in the first place - you can see it in your graph.

 

[nagapie]

I especially enjoyed hearing on the news today that teachers - during their "well-earned teabreak" - should be careful to social distance and observe good hand hygiene.

What fucking teabreak?

What fucking social distance? I work in an office designed for 4 people and shared by 9!

 

[nagapie]

I want to go back, my kids want to go back, my students want to go back. But it's hard to see how it's going to be anything but a total disaster because of all the failures to set up anything at all that looks like a competent and cohesive plan to limit this virus.

 

[brogdale]

If I were still teaching, I'd sure as hell be wearing a mask/visor.

The real win-win would be when your 25 year old 'line manager' sent you home for doing so.

 

[Badgers]

Running out or home test kits but the expensive telly advertising for testing is still running.

Little or no checking at all UK airports from all destinations. My neighbour returned from Croatia yesterday morning and did not see a thing leaving or arriving.

Fine to open the cramped, underfunded schools and then blame the underpaid teachers.

#worldbeating

 

[redsquirrel]

Except our peak was a few weeks behind a lot of other countries in the first place - you can see it in your graph.

Yes but that does not alter the fact that presently the rate of rise in new cases is lower in the UK than many other nations. And it remains true even if you compare the most recent UK data with data from other countries a few weeks ago.

 

[brogdale]

Yes but that does not alter the fact that presently the rate of rise in new cases is lower in the UK than many other nations. And it remains true even if you compare the most recent UK data with data from other countries a few weeks ago.

Whilst that's statistically correct, the (very useful) graph that you posted up-thread, demonstrates that, in part, that reflects the fact that the UK never lowered its rate of daily confirmed cases to the extent shown in other, comparable states and has maintained a worryingly high and stubborn rate throughout.