Re-opening Schools?
- Thread starter ska invita
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ska invita
back on the other side
can this thread be moved to covid forum please? and maybe date take out of the thread title? thanks mods
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Edited: moved from other thread as this is more appropriate....
News from Berlin doesn't look great re: schools.
Summary... Berlin has 825 schools. Less than 2 weeks after them opening at least 41 of them have reported teachers or students being infected.
apnews.com
News from Berlin doesn't look great re: schools.
Summary... Berlin has 825 schools. Less than 2 weeks after them opening at least 41 of them have reported teachers or students being infected.
Virus cases reported at 41 schools in Germany's capital
BERLIN (AP) — At least 41 schools in Berlin have reported that students or teachers have become infected with the coronavirus not even two weeks after schools reopened in the German capital.
apnews.com
ska invita
back on the other side
i make that about 5% (im shit at maths - is that right?)Edited: moved from other thread as this is more appropriate....
News from Berlin doesn't look great re: schools.
Summary... Berlin has 825 schools. Less than 2 weeks after them opening at least 41 of them have reported teachers or students being infected.
Virus cases reported at 41 schools in Germany's capital
BERLIN (AP) — At least 41 schools in Berlin have reported that students or teachers have become infected with the coronavirus not even two weeks after schools reopened in the German capital.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yup, not a huge percentage although that is in just 2 weeks.
I just can't see how even if the deaths and hospitalizations are low related to school infections that It still won't be hugely disruptive to classes and teaching with schools and some groups within them having to isolate regularly due to infection or a possible infection.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Have you reported this post of yours? The request is more likely to be seen if reported, rather than a mod happening across it at a later stage.
ska invita
back on the other side
Yeah thanks I did
ska invita
back on the other side
Absolutely... Seems pretty high to me
Children with long Covid
edition.cnn.com
Adults may not be the only Covid 'long haulers.' Kids have symptoms months after falling ill
Parents whose children have been battling symptoms as diverse as fatigue, breathlessness, chest pains, diarrhea and "covid toes" for weeks after suspected Covid-19 infection say there is little help to guide their kids' recovery.
edition.cnn.com
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NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Fuck you Whitty, you spineless lump of fucking dogshit.
Small risk for kids? Oh of course, because only children are ever at schools, and they certainly don't have any older relatives at home to whom they might pass the virus onto. There's no fucking way that Whitty doesn't know that.
And the children who do catch the virus and suffer and die from it? I guess those kids are worthy sacrifices in the name of education. I think Whitty should argue the case in person with those parents whose children have fallen ill or died due to the virus, I'm sure they'll find such reasoning to be totally convincing.
That's because the schools are closed, you fucking donut!
Oh fuck off. You've fucking sold your soul so that you can be pimped out as a scientific authority by Johnson and his cronies. You fucking piece of shit.
The article even points out that there's not gonna be any vaccine soon, and the R-number has gone above one. Yet the fucking useless Tory government is chomping at the bit to restore normality. Cunts.
Small risk for kids? Oh of course, because only children are ever at schools, and they certainly don't have any older relatives at home to whom they might pass the virus onto. There's no fucking way that Whitty doesn't know that.
And the children who do catch the virus and suffer and die from it? I guess those kids are worthy sacrifices in the name of education. I think Whitty should argue the case in person with those parents whose children have fallen ill or died due to the virus, I'm sure they'll find such reasoning to be totally convincing.
That's because the schools are closed, you fucking donut!
Oh fuck off. You've fucking sold your soul so that you can be pimped out as a scientific authority by Johnson and his cronies. You fucking piece of shit.
The article even points out that there's not gonna be any vaccine soon, and the R-number has gone above one. Yet the fucking useless Tory government is chomping at the bit to restore normality. Cunts.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
There's a joint statement from all of the Chief and Deputy Medical Officers, from the four nations of the UK, so it's not just Whitty .
www.gov.uk
Statement from the UK Chief Medical Officers on schools and childcare reopening
Statement from the Chief Medical Officers and Deputy Chief Medical Officers of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales on the evidence of risks and benefits to health from schools and childcare settings reopening.
Spandex
A crazy bulbous punchbag of sound
It was announced last week at some point that the government would be having a push to reassure parents that schools are safe when they reopen, so the current crop of stories will be part of this. I expect to see more in in the next couple of weeks.
Public Health England have released a report on C-19 cases in English schools when they 'reopened' in June. Link here.
It shows that there were a total of 67 coronavirus cases and 30 outbreaks detected in schools across England. Cases occurred mainly in primary school and early years settings and that there is a strong correlation between the regional incidence of Covid-19 and the number of outbreaks in educational settings. It aims to be reassuring by pointing out that up to 1.2 million children were at school in June, so outbreaks are uncommon.
I'm not sure how reassured I am by this. It shows outbreaks can happen under the absolute best case scenario - schools only had a maximum of three years back, often less, with children bubbled in small groups, against the backdrop of community transmission dropping towards a low point. The situation is going to look quite different when all years are back, without the possibility of spreading the kids out so much, especially once the weather turns and they're stuck inside more. And all that's without the possibility of a rise in cases in autumn/winter.
I don't think it's going to be as bad as some people fear, but it'll be worse than the sunny picture that the government want to paint.
Public Health England have released a report on C-19 cases in English schools when they 'reopened' in June. Link here.
It shows that there were a total of 67 coronavirus cases and 30 outbreaks detected in schools across England. Cases occurred mainly in primary school and early years settings and that there is a strong correlation between the regional incidence of Covid-19 and the number of outbreaks in educational settings. It aims to be reassuring by pointing out that up to 1.2 million children were at school in June, so outbreaks are uncommon.
I'm not sure how reassured I am by this. It shows outbreaks can happen under the absolute best case scenario - schools only had a maximum of three years back, often less, with children bubbled in small groups, against the backdrop of community transmission dropping towards a low point. The situation is going to look quite different when all years are back, without the possibility of spreading the kids out so much, especially once the weather turns and they're stuck inside more. And all that's without the possibility of a rise in cases in autumn/winter.
I don't think it's going to be as bad as some people fear, but it'll be worse than the sunny picture that the government want to paint.
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
"On average, your dead kid is better off because he returned to school."
PTK
Paul Kegan
When do you think that the schools should re-open?
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
I don't know. The CMOs aren't wrong, assuming they're reading the stats properly, but that's not much comfort to the actual individuals that will be affected, whether that's families losing members because kids have brought infection home, or teachers dying. There is no right answer, unfortunately, and this is only going to roll on and on - there will be arguments next summer about whether that tranche of kids had a fair shot at their exams, and whether the score uplift this year has disadvantaged everyone coming along after.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
It's not a question of when, an inference that seems to be based on uppity education unions never wanting a return because they all hate the kids, but 'how'. And we, school staff in education unions, are getting uppity because what we see instead of good practical advice is boxes being ticked and grand words said.
I work in education in a school in Wales. I've read in full the operational guidance for schools return. It's completely inadequate and based on fitting a version of the evidence to a political will to return, seemingly because that is what those in power think will get votes.
The argument for PPE is buried deep in the advice, and the advice is against PPE. All the emphasis is placed on hand wash hygiene, social distancing and the need for regular deep cleaning. Ignoring the fact that my particular school, being a PRU, doesn't even come under the county cleaning contract, meaning we are responsible for finding our own staff to voluntarily do deep cleaning (yes, really), the report blithely dismisses the efficacy of PPE, instead asking us to keep staff "at front of class" and a metre away from children. No mention is made of the thousands of teaching assistants whose job is to provide close-up 1:1 support for children. The best that is offered states; Following any risk assessment, where the need for PPE has been identified, it should be readily available and provided by the employer.
Note that word 'should'. There is no mandatory condition. Returning to work briefly in the summer term our staff found zero PPE provision. And for that matter minimal hand washing provision (we were provided with an outside wash basin that only had water in if the caretaker was available to keep it supplied - our caretaker covers two sites).
Like a lot of things in schools, the guidance has been cobbled together to tick boxes rather than provide proper practical support. The need for the correct piece of paper (much like risk assessments) takes precedence over practical detail.
And in a pandemic, a fucking pandemic, that's shameful.
No PPE is required when undertaking routine educational activities in classroom or school settings.
Stuff the 'when'. It's about the 'how'. Except, for those in authority and those with votes to gain, it isn't.
Schools have always been disease transmission centres. I'm sick of hearing how the kids have nothing to fear. It's not just about the kids. It's about the innumerable amount of contacts that come from kids-teaching staff-families of all.
Thora
Differently Ethical
I'm a school governor and we do have a "safer" plan with small groups, social distancing etc but it means children being in on a rota with 50% in person and 50% at home learning. That is the school management's preferred option, but it's not going to allowed by government.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Tbh after all the thousands of needless deaths caused by the government's pisspoor handling of the pandemic I'd be gobsmacked if they made some uncharacteristically sensible decisions around opening schools along the lines you suggest
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
Yes, it was mentioned three or four times during my C19 Health and Safety induction that PPE was the least effective and last method of measures the college would be taking or promoting.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Those of us who have studying risk assessment can confirm that PPE is generally considered the last line of measures considered to mitigate risk, but there are generally supposed to be various other steps taken to minimise risks including introducing safer ways of working where these are possible, which seem fairly sketchy in the government's return to school plans, to say the least.
You certainly shouldn't be putting all your efforts into PPE when other measures could be much more effective at reducing risk, assuming they are actually adhered to, which I appreciate is likely to be particularly difficult in a school setting.
And the very first thing any risk assessor should be asking is, is this hazardous activity actually necessary in the first place, or is there some way it can be avoided?
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Who said anything about putting ALL your efforts into PPE? What many of us want to know is why it is being denigrated and disparaged, put to the bottom of the list, to the point where the Welsh Guidance actually says,
Schools should also have a process for removing face coverings when learners and staff who choose to use them arrive at school,
That is directly telling us we must remove face coverings on arrival at school.
Does the guidance have anything to say about ventilation in indoor spaces? I’d see this as a critical issue.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
In a 51 page report...one line
Where possible ensure appropriate ventilation.
Seriously. It doesn't even feature in their hierarchy of risk controls, where PPE comes last at the bottom of a triangle. Nice diagrams though.
There are two pages given over to which codes we should use in the school register for non-attendance.
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
I'm happy enough with the college's guidelines but it remains to be seen what happens when students arrive. Bubbles will not work. So many students won't adhere to the rules (staff often haven't since I've been back). I'm very worried. And it all still seems like "Please, do this...if you like"
Here’s an article about ventilation, in schools and elsewhere, though from a US perspective.
www.vox.com
Coronavirus is in the air. Here’s how to get it out.
How to make indoor air safer (but not necessarily safe) during the pandemic.
www.vox.com
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