Re-opening Schools?

[William of Walworth]

I'm wondering, a lot, whether the current union-bashing by the Mail (and now by the Standard) isn't hugely misjudging the mood of a whole lot of parents?

Because I'm getting much more of an impression that a very large number of parents really do not want to send their children back to school unless safety at school can be guarenteed.

Which in June at least, it simply can't be, so soon.

So who are these Mailish headlines aimed at?
Who is it that they're principally trying to make angry with the teaching unions?
Grandparents will surely be just as concerned about safety at school as parents.
And a lot of non-parents will fully understand safety worries, from the POV of their own workplaces.

There was brief talk upthread about possible rebellions against schools reopening prematurely -- I wouldn't be surprised if such rebellions end up much bigger and more widespread than expected.

Is this likely, do Urbans (with something at stake in all this) think?

(I appreciate I'm seeing this from the not-so-well-informed perspective of a non-parent/non-teacher, but I've probably learnt more from this thread about both parents/kids, and teachers/education, than I have from life and past education in general before all this! )

 

[chilango]

Note too that the University of Cambridge, who one could reasonably assume represent the sort of standards that we should be aspiring to, have cancelled face to face lectures for the entirety of next academic year.

 

[chilango]

I'm wondering, a lot, whether the current union-bashing by the Mail (and now by the Standard) isn't hugely misjudging the mood of a whole lot of parents?

Because I'm getting much more of an impression that a very large number of parents really do not want to send their children back to school unless safety at school can be guarenteed.

Which in June at least, it simply can't be, so soon.

So who are these Mailish headlines aimed at?
Who is it that they're principally trying to make angry with the teaching unions?
Grandparents will surely be just as concerned about safety at school as parents.
And a lot of non-parents will fully understand safety worries, from the POV of their own workplaces.

There was brief talk upthread about possible rebellions against schools reopening prematurely -- I wouldn't be surprised if such rebellions end up much bigger and more widespread than expected.

Is this likely, do Urbans (with something at stake in all this) think?

(I appreciate I'm seeing this from the not-so-well-informed perspective of a non-parent/non-teacher, but I've probably learnt more from this thread about both parents/kids, and teachers/education, than I have from life and past education in general before all this! )

A growing number of local authorities have said that they won't be reopening schools on June 1st.

 

[nagapie]

Also worth noting, that even at the best of times this arse end of the Summer term is not the most "productive" academically. The idea that getting some students from some year groups back for some days over the remaining few weeks to often not be taught by subject specialists will somehow prevent the achievement gap further widening is utter fantasy.

(There are benefits for the kids in going back, many benefits, but Education with a big E isn't one of them)

This is one of the things I was trying to say. In order to social distance and cover vulnerable staff, we will invite only small amounts of students in. They will get one day next term - one day is not worth even a tiny bit of risk - to be supervised by a teacher to do the online learning they would be doing at home.

 

[chilango]

This is one of the things I was trying to say. In order to social distance and cover vulnerable staff, we will invite only small amounts of students in. They will get one day next term - one day is not worth even a tiny bit of risk - to be supervised by a teacher to do the online learning they would be doing at home.

Yep. I sat in on a very long meeting the other day discussing exactly that.

The kids are desperate to see each other though. Even for a day, from a distance. Do it in the fucking park though not a cramped school.

 

[Indeliblelink]

Note too that the University of Cambridge, who one could reasonably assume represent the sort of standards that we should be aspiring to, have cancelled face to face lectures for the entirety of next academic year.

So mass redundancies for the support staff that work there once the furlough scheme ends in October.

 

[William of Walworth]

A growing number of local authorities have said that they won't be reopening schools on June 1st.

I was starting to pick up on that as it goes -- it will be very interesting to see how many local authorities end up deciding this.

 

[chilango]

So mass redundancies for the support staff that work there once the furlough scheme ends in October.

Structural adjustment .

The chance to make sweeping cuts that without a crisis they couldn't get away with.

 

[ska invita]

So mass redundancies for the support staff that work there once the furlough scheme ends in October.

i think its too early to presume the scheme will end...especially so as i would take a punt on there being a full on lockdown by november

 

[Gramsci]

For non Londoners the Evening Standard is the London newspaper. Local news like Camden News Journal are more to the left. But Standard is the main paper.

Its not the Daily Mail. Its a good paper even if it is of the Right. Under Osbourne as editor its become more explicity Conservative supporting. I do regard its front pages like one I posted as how the Tory government thinks. I sometimes read it to see how the enemy thinks.

The Boris government is using this crisis to push the Right agenda. They are politicising the health crisis.

They are using it to attack a Labour Mayor of London through the deal imposed on TFL.

Now they are using getting children back in schools as way to attack the Labour party and Unions.

Its almost like they are using this health crisis to start a confrontation with the "left".

The Labour party so far has been asking the right questions and supporting the imo reasonable position of the Teaching Unions. My partner wants to go back to work. But she wants schools to be reopened in safe way. This right wing Boris government is not to be trusted with doing this.

So I see the Evening Standard front page as what the government thinks.

In the Standard article Tory MP / Chair of Education Select Committee says " Keir Starmer was supposed to have changed the Labour party-well this is the big test. If David Blunkett, Alan Johnson and Tony Blair recognise the importance of schools re opening Keir Starmer should speak out now"

IMO this is not about what I think of Starmer. Any Labour leader is going to get this.

There are posters here who deride posters like me for thinking this is all about a "Tory plot" , if only we could talk about reopening like "adults" or the "Left" are "risk averse".

Its clear to me the Tories are using this health crisis in clever way to pursue the class war.

 

[Indeliblelink]

i think its too early to presume the scheme will end...especially so as i would take a punt on there being a full on lockdown by november

Possibly but I doubt it will continue at 80%, by then lots of people will have lost over a months salary if you add up all the 20%s, that's quite a chunk if you're struggling to afford rent/food.

 

[chilango]

Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" is worth a quick read if you want to feel even worse about what's coming....

 

[planetgeli]

The Tories and their string pullers are always pursuing a class war. And they will always do it in the most pernicious ways, like pretending to care about the fate of working class kids when it's their own policies which have put those working class kids where they are in the first place. There was some awful naive bollocks being floated when Johnson was in hospital about it being his Damascene moment, how nobody could go through that and not be changed.

Fuck that. These people are evil, didn't get where they are without being evil or through an evil bloodline. They will always use any situation to pursue their ideology. Using working class kids comes naturally to them. It's their reason for being.

 

[Wilf]

Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" is worth a quick read if you want to feel even worse about what's coming....

Aye, 'disaster capitism', good call. I should get back to my copy... oh, hang on, it's locked in my office at work.

 

[ska invita]

She's doing lots of interviews about c19 and disaster capitalism at the moment

Here's one

 

[Wilf]

The Tories and their string pullers are always pursuing a class war. And they will always do it in the most pernicious ways, like pretending to care about the fate of working class kids when it's their own policies which have put those working class kids where they are in the first place. There was some awful naive bollocks being floated when Johnson was in hospital about it being his Damascene moment, how nobody could go through that and not be changed.

Fuck that. These people are evil, didn't get where they are without being evil or through an evil bloodline. They will always use any situation to pursue their ideology. Using working class kids comes naturally to them. It's their reason for being.

Yep, particularly about the non road to Damascus. Those who are imagining a kinder world emerging from this are going to be disappointed.

 

[20Bees]

Are the unions representing only teaching staff? There are a lot of adults in a school who work in non-teaching roles - the office and kitchen staff, playground supervisors, caretaker and cleaners, the ‘lollipop lady’ (or man) stopping traffic... how many of them could refuse to risk going into school for it to be impossible to function?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

BB2’s primary school has tonight sent an email with their plan; it is for reception and year 1 to return in a staged fashion with bubbles of ten kids and one teacher, for three or four hours a day. That is their proposal but they have sent a survey to see how many parents are up for that. It’s all quite fair, asking year 2 parents their views even though their kids are not in the frame, just to gauge the general mood. This is middle class heaven btw, the mood from our class WhatsApp is pretty much 50/50 to send in or keep away, albeit moot as we are year 2, some parents do also have year R kids. One set whom the mother is a secondary teacher and the dad a GP (told you it was middle class heaven!) have stated they would send both their year R and year 2 back if possible. We have indicated on the survey that we would send BB2 back, but on the WhatsApp we have stated what we have done but reserve the right to not send her in should year 2 be asked to return if we’re not comfortable at that time.

 

[weepiper]

I can't remember who it was that said when they googled 'hippy school' the Edinburgh Steiner School was the first hit, but I personally know three guys who went to school there. One of them is known even now as Cosmic Jon.

 

[sheothebudworths]

Are the unions representing only teaching staff? There are a lot of adults in a school who work in non-teaching roles - the office and kitchen staff, playground supervisors, caretaker and cleaners, the ‘lollipop lady’ (or man) stopping traffic... how many of them could refuse to risk going into school for it to be impossible to function?

No, GMB, Unison etc represent support staff.

 

[Gramsci]

This is the risk assessment checklist drawn up by the unions incase anyone's interested (definitely illustrates how complex and complicated it is!) -

https://www.gmb.org.uk/sites/default/files/12%20STEP%20GUIDANCE%20PRIMARY%20SCHOOLS%20REOPENING.pdf

Its rather unfortunate that this government didnt start a proper dialogue with Teachers through their representatives the Unions some time ago.

Then all the Tory instigated unpleasantness Im seeing now in right wing press would not have been necessary.

Unless the Boris led Tory government wanted a confrontation as part of their "centre right" agenda

 

[Gramsci]

I can't remember who it was that said when they googled 'hippy school' the Edinburgh Steiner School was the first hit, but I personally know three guys who went to school there. One of them is known even now as Cosmic Jon.

Whats that got to do with the present discussion here?

 

[Combustible]

I haven't called anyone an "old fogie". It is an obvious fact that old people are more likely to die generally. By the time you are in your eighties and nineties the odds of death are remarkably high. Covid makes that more likely.

On average, a man who dies of Covid loses 13 years of their expected lifespan, a woman loses 11. Do you consider 13 years a "slight extension"?

New study finds coronavirus can cut life span by 10 years or more

A study from the University of Glasgow tested the assumption those who died from COVID-19 would have died soon regardless of contracting the infection.

thehill.com

 

[Gramsci]

BB2’s primary school has tonight sent an email with their plan; it is for reception and year 1 to return in a staged fashion with bubbles of ten kids and one teacher, for three or four hours a day. That is their proposal but they have sent a survey to see how many parents are up for that. It’s all quite fair, asking year 2 parents their views even though their kids are not in the frame, just to gauge the general mood. This is middle class heaven btw, the mood from our class WhatsApp is pretty much 50/50 to send in or keep away, albeit moot as we are year 2, some parents do also have year R kids. One set whom the mother is a secondary teacher and the dad a GP (told you it was middle class heaven!) have stated they would send both their year R and year 2 back if possible. We have indicated on the survey that we would send BB2 back, but on the WhatsApp we have stated what we have done but reserve the right to not send her in should year 2 be asked to return if we’re not comfortable at that time.

My partner school is torn is what I get the impression. Whether it is a State School or middle class private this opening schools on 1st June is being rushed. Boris decided it without even running the idea past state or private schools first. Its an awful lot of responsibility to dump on those who manage schools. The government line on re opening imo has been ambivalent. If it goes wrong for a particular school who will get blame?

My partner is now in position of being concerned about her health and wanting to get back to the children.

She said to me today if schools were planned to open in September that would be fine. Give time to sort out how to do it. Also get more time to get a grip on the pandemic.

Impression I get is that a signifcant number of parents won't send children back in June. Unless pressured to do so. They will wait to September.

 

[redsquirrel]

Also worth noting, that even at the best of times this arse end of the Summer term is not the most "productive" academically. The idea that getting some students from some year groups back for some days over the remaining few weeks to often not be taught by subject specialists will somehow prevent the achievement gap further widening is utter fantasy.

(There are benefits for the kids in going back, many benefits, but Education with a big E isn't one of them)

Indeed as krink said earlier - yes in an ideal world you be teaching in class, but educationally it really would not be the end of the world to students teaching and learning if they do not go back before September.

Note too that the University of Cambridge, who one could reasonably assume represent the sort of standards that we should be aspiring to, have cancelled face to face lectures for the entirety of next academic year.

Yes although as Indeliblelink points out that in some ways that is also an attack on workers - move learning online and it makes it more difficult for workers to withdraw their labour.

(Although from an pedagogical perspective I'm strongly in favour flipped classrooms - as always the key is who is doing the driving and workers power)

 

[kebabking]

Anecdotal stuff....

At the kids school, rural Worcestershire with kids from both middle and working class backgrounds, the Y1/reception 'offer' has had a 25% take up rate, while Y6 offer has had a 50% take up rate.

In Mrs K's school, urban West Midlands with a similar mix, but with more NHS workers, the Y6 offer got a 60% take up, but they aren't offering Y1 and reception. They do have far more key worker kids in though.

Staff in both deeply unhappy.

 

[LDC]

Note too that the University of Cambridge, who one could reasonably assume represent the sort of standards that we should be aspiring to, have cancelled face to face lectures for the entirety of next academic year.

As in October 2020 to 2021?! chilango

A lecturer I know at UCL has been told January 2021 for any face-to-face at the earliest.

 

[chilango]

As in October 2020 to 2021?! chilango

Cambridge University moves all lectures online until summer 2021

Institution first to announce virtual teaching for next academic year

www.theguardian.com

 

[SpookyFrank]

Is this likely, do Urbans (with something at stake in all this) think?

We all have a stake in this. But as someone who has already lost my job due to school closures, I think the schools have to stay closed until, at the very earliest, there is robust contact tracing and testing in place. To help kids, parents, schools and other kid-related services plan properly for the future it would make more sense to say no school for the rest of the academic year.

To give a subset of kids the chance to go back to (a mutilated version of) school only to then take even that away again would do more harm than good from a socialisation, development point of view. Better to use what wiggle room there is to let kids socialise more outside school, let parents share childcare, home schooling etc.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

As in October 2020 to 2021?! chilango

A lecturer I know at UCL has been told January 2021 for any face-to-face at the earliest.

They said for the entire academic year. But they reserve the right to change their minds if the chaos changes. But it’s not a big sciencey place, so they’ll probably go with what Trump decrees...