Re-opening Schools?

[William of Walworth]

Belatedly catching up with this thread (I'm just at page 15 so far)

Neither of us are either parents or teachers, but I thoroughly agree with most on this thread who are saying schools should not reopen ahead of September.
Here in Wales it seems that they're not going to be opened any earlier than that, thankfully -- but issues still remain potentially, even in September, as planetgeli has already posted about.
If schools are opened prematurely, pupils' and teachers' safety will inevitably be compromised, but not just theirs -- the safety of anyone in close contact with them will also be affected.

I also agree with the teaching unions' positions on this, so far as I've seen their positions anyway.

</continues with thread>

 

[Gramsci]

No social distancing has actually been proposed for young children though, has it? Is any country distancing under 7s in schools or nurseries?

My concern about the talk about how disturbing it will be for children to go to school or childcare with any form of extra hygiene measures or social distancing in place, is that it seems likely to me that things will not be all back to normal by September.
Are key workers damaging the development of their children by sending them to school and childcare now?

Have a look at this from France:

French teachers paint squares to enforce social distancing for pupils

One historian described the images of children playing in 'isolated squares' as 'heartbreaking'

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Gramsci]

No social distancing has actually been proposed for young children though, has it? Is any country distancing under 7s in schools or nurseries?

My concern about the talk about how disturbing it will be for children to go to school or childcare with any form of extra hygiene measures or social distancing in place, is that it seems likely to me that things will not be all back to normal by September.
Are key workers damaging the development of their children by sending them to school and childcare now?

Ive heard from a teacher who is going for few days a week to teach key workers children that in practise its very hard to do social distancing in school setting.

 

[Thora]

Have a look at this from France:

French teachers paint squares to enforce social distancing for pupils

One historian described the images of children playing in 'isolated squares' as 'heartbreaking'

www.standard.co.uk

I don't doubt that that particular school is managing things in a particularly silly way, but that's not actually a requirement for French schools, is it?
Some English schools have posted similar "shock" photos on facebook to dissuade parents from sending children back in.
Lots of schools however are managing things really well in a child friendly way.

The issue with reopening schools is that it may increase community transmission, the government doesn't have a sufficient testing and tracking system in place to deal with outbreaks, and teachers are put at particular risk. I don't find the dramatic stuff about social distancing traumatising children very helpful as those measures are likely to be with us for a while.

 

[Thora]

Ive heard from a teacher who is going for few days a week to teach key workers children that in practise its very hard to do social distancing in school setting.

Of course, you can't make young children physically distance from each other or from the adults caring for them.

 

[Gramsci]

I don't doubt that that particular school is managing things in a particularly silly way, but that's not actually a requirement for French schools, is it?
Some English schools have posted similar "shock" photos on facebook to dissuade parents from sending children back in.
Lots of schools however are managing things really well in a child friendly way.

The issue with reopening schools is that it may increase community transmission, the government doesn't have a sufficient testing and tracking system in place to deal with outbreaks, and teachers are put at particular risk. I don't find the dramatic stuff about social distancing traumatising children very helpful as those measures are likely to be with us for a while.

So these child friendly schools - what are they suggesting?

 

[Edie]

Of course, you can't make young children physically distance from each other or from the adults caring for them.

This is just common sense eh. I bloody hope they’re not basing any calculations on reception age kids understanding a two metre rule, that would be INSANE.

Anyway the whole gentle ribbing of Gramsci missus for chakra aligning has been fun (even for a capitalist pigdog like me). You may well all prove right about it being way too soon re schools. I very very much hope I’m not proved too right about the recession and job losses. And I know nyxx secretly has a massive girl crush on me so I’ll leave it there

 

[Athos]

So these child friendly schools - what are they suggesting?

Distancing between but not within bubbles.

 

[Thora]

So these child friendly schools - what are they suggesting?

You can read the government guidance if you want - children in small fixed groups with fixed adults, kept separate from other groups, extra hygiene measures etc. Young children aren't expected to maintain physical distance from each other or adults within their group in nurseries or primary schools.

Even if it is "safe enough" for schools to return in August or September, it's likely those measures will still have to be in place. They still have these measures in places like Germany and the Netherlands where cases are much lower. We won't be able to wait to open childcare and schools until it's all back to normal.

 

[Gramsci]

Distancing between but not within bubbles.

So some schools are going to use marks on floor and some arent but both are going to socially distance children in the school environment?

Oh I see in small groups.

 

[Gramsci]

You can read the government guidance if you want - children in small fixed groups with fixed adults, kept separate from other groups, extra hygiene measures etc. Young children aren't expected to maintain physical distance from each other or adults within their group in nurseries or primary schools.

Even if it is "safe enough" for schools to return in August or September, it's likely those measures will still have to be in place. They still have these measures in places like Germany and the Netherlands where cases are much lower. We won't be able to wait to open childcare and schools until it's all back to normal.

I dont trust guidance from this government any more.

 

[Thora]

I dont trust guidance from this government any more.

Great, but that's what childcare, nurseries and schools are going to be following.

 

[Gramsci]

My partners been worried about this re opening. Now its going to be fine because Boris has put out government guidance for schools .Im so relieved thats sorted then.

 

[Thora]

My partners been worried about this re opening. Now its going to be fine because Boris has put out government guidance for schools .Im so relieved thats sorted then.

Do you think schools and nurseries should only reopen once there are no extra measures put in?

 

[Gramsci]

Do you think schools and nurseries should only reopen once there are no extra measures put in?

Id like to have a government I feel I could trust. With recent events Ive lost faith in them.

 

[Aladdin]

No chief medical officer, or equivalent, is independent of the state. They've got where they are for a reason.

You may well have a point. However, I would doubt that he would want his name to go down in history as the person responsible for letting kids and teachers back to school too early, leading to kids and teachers becoming ill or dying.

 

[Aladdin]

Have a look at this from France:

French teachers paint squares to enforce social distancing for pupils

One historian described the images of children playing in 'isolated squares' as 'heartbreaking'

www.standard.co.uk

That is heartbreaking.
Seeing little kids isolated in squares on the yard is heartbreaking.

 

[Humberto]

They have been doing away with the idea that the state and society should help each other, now that they have been rumbled they are trying to prevent revolution and rebellion.

 

[ska invita]

Good thread here...schools in Denmark have reopend - but compares under what circumstances in comparison with the UK

Thread by @mcash: Danish schools have reopened, why not the UK? Teachers want schools to go back but we want it to be safe. That's why the @NEUnion set 5 simp…

Thread by @mcash: Danish schools have reopened, why not the UK? Teachers want schools to go back but we want it to be safe. That's why the @Non set 5 simple tests. Let's look at the Danish experience: a thread. (1/8) NEU Test 1: Much lower numbers of Cov…

threadreaderapp.com

 

[Gramsci]

Good thread here...schools in Denmark have reopend - but compares under what circumstances in comparison with the UK

Thread by @mcash: Danish schools have reopened, why not the UK? Teachers want schools to go back but we want it to be safe. That's why the @NEUnion set 5 simp…

Thread by @mcash: Danish schools have reopened, why not the UK? Teachers want schools to go back but we want it to be safe. That's why the @Non set 5 simple tests. Let's look at the Danish experience: a thread. (1/8) NEU Test 1: Much lower numbers of Cov…

threadreaderapp.com

Major difference is trust in authorities:

VP of Danish teacher union: “we were consulted so much that we felt quite safe about this. We said to our members that we think that we can actually trust the authorities and that it will be OK to go back.” (8/8)

 

[DexterTCN]

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Yeah it’s okay cos apparently he’s signing up at 15 years and 7 months. Despite never having voluntarily got out of bed and being literally incapable of taking a single instruction from an adult.

Our middle child briefly flirted with the idea of joining the army, despite me pointing out that following orders was as far from her natural state as it was possible to get.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Major difference is trust in authorities:

Also the difference in school design - most schools in Denmark are combined primary+secondary, which means that if only primary kids go back they have a huge amount of space available within which to enforce social distancing.

 

[Red Cat]

The issue with reopening schools is that it may increase community transmission, the government doesn't have a sufficient testing and tracking system in place to deal with outbreaks, and teachers are put at particular risk. I don't find the dramatic stuff about social distancing traumatising children very helpful as those measures are likely to be with us for a while.

I agree.

I find the whole there's going to be a mental health crisis imminently really unhelpful too. I can't stand the use of medical language (traumatised being one of them) to describe people struggling with difficult feelings in response to very difficult circumstances and the assumption that they need professional help. It should be talked about with children, where possible, not with dramatic adult talk about how awful the government is, but that the adults are working together to make sure that everything is as safe as it can be, but that it won't be back to normal for a while, and there'll be small changes bit by bit that will be hard but we'll manage.

I think something that is more likely to be effected is the male suicide rate due to unemployment.

 

[flypanam]

You can read the government guidance if you want - children in small fixed groups with fixed adults, kept separate from other groups, extra hygiene measures etc. Young children aren't expected to maintain physical distance from each other or adults within their group in nurseries or primary schools.

Even if it is "safe enough" for schools to return in August or September, it's likely those measures will still have to be in place. They still have these measures in places like Germany and the Netherlands where cases are much lower. We won't be able to wait to open childcare and schools until it's all back to normal.

The government’s advice is that even marking work books is unsafe

Marking books not safe suggests new coronavirus guidance for teachers | Schools | The Guardian

Councils warn parents not to expect schools to open on 1 June as government prepares for union talks

www.google.com

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Also the difference in school design - most schools in Denmark are combined primary+secondary, which means that if only primary kids go back they have a huge amount of space available within which to enforce social distancing.

This.
The school my sister works in is junior and five forms per year, with only year six going back there is tons of room for them.
BB2’s school is primary two form entry and has four classrooms off the hall and a separate reception block, all based around a tiny playground. No way can reception and year one go back and maintain any space. The head emailed yesterday to say she has no idea how the can reopen and have heard jack shit from the DfE.

 

[Thora]

The government’s advice is that even marking work books is unsafe

Marking books not safe suggests new coronavirus guidance for teachers | Schools | The Guardian

Councils warn parents not to expect schools to open on 1 June as government prepares for union talks

www.google.com

I think that’s union advice rather than government.

 

[flypanam]

I think that’s union advice rather than government.

Opps, thanks.

 

[SpineyNorman]

oh and just an aside, can certain posters refrain from equating working from home to being middle class? i have been made to work from home at the moment and i qualify for benefits my pay is so low. there's shit loads of low paid people who can work from home.

Same here, and looking after my 18 month old on my own while trying to do my full time low paid job while his mum is at work at the hospital. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't swap it for a job at a supermarket or hospital ward but I'm not exactly sitting around in sandals doing arts and crafts and eating hummus and mung bean salad.

 

[Gramsci]

This argument stop having a go at the government and discuss this like adults to get children back to school does sound to me like another way to have a go at Unions..

ska invita article from Denmark shows that the Danish government has worked with teachers to open schools The kind of precautions that the Teachers Union has been asking for in this country have been met in Denmark.

So the NEU questions to government are still valid with posters?

Or is it that this is having a go at the government and should stop now?