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Rape, sexual assault and harassment in the entertainment industry

Wilf said:
I have a feeling that which of the above turns out to be right will be a measure of how far things have got in that nauseous hinterland between those ex-leftists, conspiracists and the alt-right. Not only a question of how much rationality is left, how much common decency, but also how much there's a willingness for self reflection in the face of evidence. What would be interesting would be to see where some of the 'big names' who supported Assange stand on Brand. I can guess a few of them will be with him and, perhaps more importantly, adopting the language of 'mainstream media'. Galloway, was of course the safe bet, though I suspect a few of the others will be a little bit uneasy at the moment.

Edit: actually, doing a mental inventory of some of Assange's 'left' supporters, I think the majority will have the sense to either keep their mouth shut about Brand or come out on the right side. However, the point stands, at least in the sense of how much of an overlap there is between Assange and Brand's wider support.
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I have a good friend (leftie) who went to a gig of Brand's a few months ago, I did question them on this given his alt-right & conspiracy stuff which they shrugged off. They also went to some Comedy Unleashed event (Inside London's 'Free Speech' Comedy Night) that I was much harsher with them on that they also shrugged off the criticism of.

A discussion (row) with them over it has been on the cards since then but not had any contact. Do wonder what they're going to say about this stuff with Brand...
 
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Wilf said:
However, the point stands, at least in the sense of how much of an overlap there is between Assange and Brand's wider support.
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That’s definitely true.

There is also a section of what you could call the ‘free speech’ liberal left who seem to have immediately lurched into sickening whataboutery. There are a number of Lexit supporters (depressingly) like Fazi who’ve immediately got down the MSM conspiracy rabbit hole and then you’ve got a disturbing segment who simply believe anything reported in the media is a lie. I’ve even seen an anarchist who’s used it to attack Mark Fisher. As I say, it’s extensive. Disturbingly so.

ETA, just had a look at some of the more surprising accounts - having decided not to look at Twitter after the initial barfing up of shit - and there has been some deletions and clarifications. A small step away from the abyss maybe, but their initial responses are revealing
 
Smokeandsteam said:
That’s definitely true.

There is also a section of what you could call the ‘free speech’ liberal left who seem to have immediately lurched into sickening whataboutery. There are a number of Lexit supporters (depressingly) like Fazi who’ve immediately got down the MSM conspiracy rabbit hole and then you’ve got a disturbing segment who simply believe anything reported in the media is a lie. I’ve even seen an anarchist who’s used it to attack Mark Fisher. As I say, it’s extensive. Disturbingly so.
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I've spent a fair bit of today and yesterday reading the 2013 sealed knot types using this as an opportunity to refight the old Fisher battles, dunno why I did that cos it's not a good experience for anyone. Fwiw, one of Fisher's apostles has already managed to get an article out of it: Mark Fisher was not Russell Brand
 
bluescreen said:
That's from Lunch with the FT back in 2014. Lucy Kellaway skewers him nicely, but in an FT context. He comes out of it as a total scumbag without her actually having to say so.
Archived here
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I think that this article is interesting in that it shows aspects of Russell Brand that some people will find attractive. He appears to be self-critical and reflective. I suppose perhaps we could say that these days The Devil Self-Deprecates.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
That’s definitely true.

There is also a section of what you could call the ‘free speech’ liberal left who seem to have immediately lurched into sickening whataboutery. There are a number of Lexit supporters (depressingly) like Fazi who’ve immediately got down the MSM conspiracy rabbit hole and then you’ve got a disturbing segment who simply believe anything reported in the media is a lie. I’ve even seen an anarchist who’s used it to attack Mark Fisher. As I say, it’s extensive. Disturbingly so.

ETA, just had a look at some of the more surprising accounts - having decided not to look at Twitter after the initial barfing up of shit - and there has been some deletions and clarifications. A small step away from the abyss maybe, but their initial responses are revealing
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In terms of leftists and liberals who carried on supporting Assange, I suppose there are some obvious parallels and worrying differences. There's the, yuk, 'charismatic' figurehead who (they claim) gets under the skin of 'them', the cult like devotion, the willingness to lose any instincts they might once have had about sexual violence and plenty more. But with Assange there was a kind of plausibility to the idea the Americans had manipulated the situation, something to do with material interests and wikileaks (not something I went with, was really plausible, but was at least grounded). This time, the notion of 'them' or the mainstream media is so much further out, it's on a raft of shite in a sea of paranoia. In breaking from the idea of the media's links to capital, it clearly departs from any kind of left analysis, but most of all is paranoia made real, the kind of thing that, as with all conspiracy theories gives the enlightened ones a psychological pay off. In terms of showing pillars the 'left'-conspiracist-right sits on, maybe it's just the latest edition. But maybe his liberal-leftist fans have now given up even trying to locate this within their former politics.
 
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With Assange there's also the point that dickhead though he may be, he has zero chance of getting a fair trial in the US of A, so his extradition should be opposed on those grounds alone.

Brand might end up doing porridge for the crime of being a horrible *@#t - Harvey Weinstein did - but I suspect he may wriggle free of that one yet.
 
Other than Galloway, has anyone on the 'left' defended Brand? I haven't seen anyone. Unless you still count that twat Paul Emberry.
 
Idris2002 said:
With Assange there's also the point that dickhead though he may be, he has zero chance of getting a fair trial in the US of A, so his extradition should be opposed on those grounds alone.

Brand might end up doing porridge for the crime of being a horrible *@#t - Harvey Weinstein did - but I suspect he may wriggle free of that one yet.
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He is very much a class A grifter, it totally wouldn't surprise me if he comes out of this OK in the long run. Probably even a book in it somewhere for him.
 
LDC said:
He is very much a class A grifter, it totally wouldn't surprise me if he comes out of this OK in the long run. Probably even a book in it somewhere for him.
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Looks like his current publisher are distancing themselves from him

Book publisher 'pausing' relationship with Brand​

Russell Brand's publisher, Bluebird, is "pausing" all future projects with Russell Brand.
Brand, a best-selling author since publishing his first autobiography in 2007, has been working with Pan Macmillan imprint Bluebird since 2017.
He was working on another book that was scheduled for publication this December.
A statement from the company said: "Bluebird has taken the decision to pause all future publishing with Russell Brand."
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Also

Talent agency Tavistock Wood terminates all ties with Brand​

Literary and talent agency Tavistock Wood has "terminated all professional ties" with Brand.
One of their agents was reportedly approached in 2020 by one of the women in this weekend's investigation. But the woman only heard back from Brand's lawyer. "Russell Brand categorically and vehemently denied the allegation made in 2020, but we now believe we were horribly misled by him. TW has terminated all professional ties to Brand," a new statement said.

Talks continue for Brand's Plymouth show on Friday​

Russell Brand is scheduled to perform a live show as part of his tour on Friday 22 September at Plymouth Pavilions.
A spokesperson from Plymouth Pavilions has told the BBC:
“Plymouth Pavilions' management are currently in talks with the tour promoters and we will have an update for the press and those with tickets in due course.”

So I don't think he's going to escape completely unaffected
 
andysays said:
Looks like his current publisher are distancing themselves from him

Book publisher 'pausing' relationship with Brand​

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Great. The more he loses his public voice and outlets and has his influence completely broken the better. His hardcore loons might stay, but there's a large chunk of people he's been dragging from wellness through conspiracy stuff into alt-right politics. The sooner that gets stopped the better.
 
LDC said:
Great. The more he loses his public voice and outlets and has his influence completely broken the better. His hardcore loons might stay, but there's a large chunk of people he's been dragging from wellness through conspiracy stuff into alt-right politics. The sooner that gets stopped the better.
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I'm sure plenty of hardcore loons will take this as more "proof" that there's a conspiracy to silence him, but hopefully he'll take a significant financial hit and his ability to drag new people into his orbit will be reduced.
 
hitmouse said:
I've spent a fair bit of today and yesterday reading the 2013 sealed knot types using this as an opportunity to refight the old Fisher battles, dunno why I did that cos it's not a good experience for anyone. Fwiw, one of Fisher's apostles has already managed to get an article out of it: Mark Fisher was not Russell Brand
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That sort of black and white guilt by association stuff is really unhelpful isn't it. If having said anything positive about Brand at any point marks you out as basically on his side, why wouldn't some people (not Fisher obviously but you get the point) dig in? I mean it's even more obvious now that using Brand was a really bad decision but surely it's equally obvious that Fisher wasn't an advocate of the sort of thing Brand has been accused of now.
 
andysays said:
Also

Talent agency Tavistock Wood terminates all ties with Brand​

Literary and talent agency Tavistock Wood has "terminated all professional ties" with Brand.
One of their agents was reportedly approached in 2020 by one of the women in this weekend's investigation. But the woman only heard back from Brand's lawyer. "Russell Brand categorically and vehemently denied the allegation made in 2020, but we now believe we were horribly misled by him. TW has terminated all professional ties to Brand," a new statement said.

Talks continue for Brand's Plymouth show on Friday​

Russell Brand is scheduled to perform a live show as part of his tour on Friday 22 September at Plymouth Pavilions.
A spokesperson from Plymouth Pavilions has told the BBC:
“Plymouth Pavilions' management are currently in talks with the tour promoters and we will have an update for the press and those with tickets in due course.”

So I don't think he's going to escape completely unaffected
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If he avoids jail he can probably find some way to survive within the alt-right ecosystem with a new martyr status.

theconversation.com

The parallel economy: the rightwing movement creating a safe haven for deplatformed conservative influencers

Rightwing activists are creating a ‘parallel economy’ to compete with mainstream tech and financial systems.
theconversation.com theconversation.com

Interesting article I read recently about the emergence of a parallel economy for the alt-right.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
.

What is the most shocking thing about this whole affair isn’t the allegations about Brand (are they even a surprise given the endless number of red flags that many just chose to ignore or elide in their cheerleading of his half-baked ‘politics’?) but the number of seemingly otherwise sentient people backing him up and finding themselves in a horrible alliance with other post-truth nutters. This includes people on the left who have, it seems, finally jumped the shark in their defence of Brand. I always knew, in theory, that the internet and twitter in particular was producing a parasitic and largely useless set of politics based on political and personal virtue displayed through association with celebrity and consumptive culture, but I’d never realised that it was as large scale and warped as it patently is
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Yes. There's a feeling of "okay this is a hellscape" whenever I delve into political waters online. So I don't. Its not even that it's because people disagree, more the strange sense of atomisation, addiction to scroll and win, hopelessness and extremism roaring back at you through the screen. I would think most online discussions on brand online are toxic . Maybe I am wrong but I have no inclination to check.
 
The "MSM media is out to get him" line is so toxic and fucked up and paranoid, isn't it?

So what if they are? They likely have strong evidence that the man is a rapist and serial sexual harraser of women. Go get him, ffs. But his loon scape will all think it goes even deeper and darker than that, that it's the deep state child eaters behind it all, won't they?
 
Holding this greaseball to account will be a net good, no matter what the screaming is online. Hang him out to dry. I know it does little to change the structural misogyny that results in this behaviour in the first place, but it'll be one small thing to show the cunt up for what he is: a greasy entitled nonce. His victims to deserve infinitely to see their pain acknowledged - preferably by the state. It'll hopefully help change the atmosphere for reporting these people, and for another marker to other entitled powerful nonces and harrasers to keep their grubby hands to themselves. That their "charm" and 'powers of persuasion" and the rest of their filthy antics are not wanted and will not be tolerated.
 
BigMoaner said:
The "MSM media is out to get him" line is so toxic and fucked up and paranoid, isn't it?

So what if they are? They likely have strong evidence that the man is a rapist and serial sexual harraser of women. Go get him, ffs. But his loon scape will all think it goes even deeper and darker than that, that it's the deep state child eaters behind it all, won't they?
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Yeah, things are a bit grim when the existence of evidence against a person can be used easily and seamlessly to shore that person up and even go on the attack. Having said that, it's not all persuasive and I'd hope, even imagine, that a layer of his loon-o--spere would start going through stages of disillusionment (even if evidence of his rapey ways doesn't bounce them right back to firm ground).
 
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