Whose side are the FBI on, though? Given we know the accusations involve a Prince and perhaps a sitting president and a former one, doesn’t this all fall into the realms of ‘national security’?
Prince Andrew, Duke of York, named in underage 'sex slave' lawsuit
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I’d like to think so but Charles’ very close relationship with Savile has never come under any kind of scrutiny. Savile apparently played advisor during the Prince’s breakdown of his marriage with Diana. The mind boggles.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
I seriously doubt that the FBI or any other law enforcement agency for that matter are involved in a conspiracy to protect rich pedo's, otherwise why did they even arrest him in the first place? Sure there are no doubt some bad apples but the idea that the FBI, CIA or the NSA or the Coast Guard are behind Epstein's death is conspiracy loonie tunes, I really don't think a US government agency would kill even a scumbag like Epstein to protect even the President from accusations of being a pedo. Individual agents maybe, some other dodgy financier who knows 'people who know people' sure but a government agency nope we're in Who bombed the Twin Towers territory again.
Yes we’re in that territory. But you claim it isn’t suicide so it’s you leading us into it.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
From FT's news alert:
Jeffrey Epstein’s cause of death was suicide by hanging, according to a New York chief medical examiner determination cited by the Associated Press.
Jeffrey Epstein’s cause of death was suicide by hanging, according to a New York chief medical examiner determination cited by the Associated Press.
It isn’t a circular argument. Either we have fanciful theories or we don’t.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
I'm perfectly willing to believe it was suicide, I have no more idea than you. But it does seem awfully convenient that it happened now. But a government agency bumping him off to protect Trump and Obama don't buy it. If he was murdered then I would think it more likely that one of his rich ex-buddies paid one or two guards (don't need many) to look the other way whilst some hired muscle did the deed maybe even another prisoner.
And those people immediately became willing participants despite the ocean of shit waiting for them if caught.
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
To be fair there's a long history of people who have been hanged in jail who didn't do it themselves. The only reason to believe that they did it themselves is to trust that at the time of their death the door was locked and they were alone. Almost impossible to prove in a private money making institution where the lights and the cctv can be switched off on demand.
I have no trust in that country as to what happens to people who are incarcerated under it's judicial system and then there's the dickwad that's currently in charge to consider and the lengths he's already gone to to hide his lies. I'm not a loon-spud but it's not inconceivable to think that Patsy's not at play...
There be precedent from previous presidents for what goes on behind closed doors.
That country is a shit hole.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
There's a wide spectrum of what might constitute willing and people do stuff that they know could get them in serious shit all the time.
So then we need a plausible theory. Because the CIA doing him isn’t any less believable than guards and prisoners being paid to do it.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
For the right price, why not? Being a prison guard is a pretty shit job. Who wouldn't want a potential way out of it?
I'm not saying he definitely was murdered, but I don't see any particular reason to think that murdering him would have been beyond the rich, connected, powerful folk who may have wanted him dead.
As for the corruptibility of the establishment, did you follow any of Hutton inquiry? At a rather less high-end level, how about the trouble they went to to cover up what happened to Mark Duggan?
Because you’d need the collaboration of a few people. Perhaps the mob run that prison, that would be somewhat plausible. But what do guards on shit money owe them, or anyone?
And maybe the coroner is on the mob’s payroll. See how it expands?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Um guards on shit money may not owe them, but the 'shit money' aspect of their work may be a clue as to how you might persuade them to cooperate.
As for the coroner, you're right, the fewer people involved the better. So you actually hang him. Coroner reports death by hanging. Job done.
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
Once someone is in prison they are at the mercy of a whole lot more than the system that put them there. It's a whole new level of subterranean sub-society that operates under a very different system of wealth, currency and honour.
It's bad enough in the UK but we're fucking miles behind the worm hole that exists once you go down in the US of shit.
It's bad enough in the UK but we're fucking miles behind the worm hole that exists once you go down in the US of shit.
Surely it would have been simpler to have bumped him off on the outside though, rather than in a guarded state facility?
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Why would anyone bother to buy off the coroner? Epstein is dead he can't talk. Even if it's obvious he was murdered he still can't talk. That's all anyone wanting him dead needs.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
This is a good point. You pay a bunch of people a pile of cash to do it (masking your involvement from them appropriately of course in case they fuck it up). Then as long as they do it, if you were careful enough to mask your involvement, you don't actually need to care if they get caught or not. Their problem.
Better, though, for it to be declared a suicide. Then the investigation stops there. So you arrange for it to look like a suicide, and pay the extra that takes. Not as if we're talking about people who lack funds.
And if they did pay mob types to do it, why wouldn't they do a good job of it, which, if he was murdered, it appears they did? They will have experience of this kind of work after all. It's their line.
I think even guards on shit money know that they’ll have to explain why cameras weren’t working and who had the keys to cells on which shifts etc.
If conditions are that easy to breach there’d be loads of escapes and the like.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Let's hope they all take care crossing the road.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
And yet the cameras weren't working. Or at the very least, the death wasn't caught on camera. So we have levels of incompetence here. Not a good look for the prison. Or we have levels of corruption in which people were paid a pile of money to look like they're incompetent.
I repeat that I'm not saying this is what happened, merely that we don't know, and given who is involved here and the stakes, we should refrain from credulity. But there are plenty of folk on here who think David Kelly killed himself, so I'll leave it there.
You don't need believe in holographic planes to reasonably suspect the CIA of judiciously interviening in legal proceedings when deemed expedient. Christopher Coke etc.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No they only train up death squads, provoke coups, assassinate and kidnap in johnny foreigner land. At home, they scrupulously respect the constitution.The Russians disappear people in their prison system. Natginksi. But oh no, couldn't happen in the US for some reason.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
HM's offspring are a more persuasive popular argument for a republic than any appeal to theories of democracy.
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in that meeting. What if they refused. Then what?
The Russians disappear people in their prison system. Magnitsky. But oh no, couldn't happen in the US for some reason.
The Russians blatantly murder their expats who make too much noise and barely try to conceal it.
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