Prince Andrew, Duke of York, named in underage 'sex slave' lawsuit

[Idris2002]

Anyway, I'd like to discuss the honeytrap stuff.

Got any non-loon link for that?

This is a relatively level-headed thing that scratches the surface of the alleged spook links:

Was Jeffrey Epstein a Spy?

The exaggerated stories the notorious financier pedophile told of his time in intelligence circles may have been at least partially true.

www.rollingstone.com

The reporting of the Miami Herald people, which broke the story years ago, included one claim that a prosecutor (or investigator?) had been warned off by a Fed who told him "Epstein belongs to intelligence".

 

[teqniq]

The Motherjones piece linked to upthread touches on the spooks stuff too but not in great detail.

 

[RileyOBlimey]

The Sweeney podcast is worth a listen: Hunting Ghislaine: A new LBC podcast investigating the life of Ghislaine Maxwell

 

[quiet guy]

What about if it was a sex game gone wrong, eh? We know he was a dirty fucker.

There was no citrus fruit found

 

[quiet guy]

 

[weltweit]

His bed sheet.

indeed

Death of Jeffrey Epstein - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[splonkydoo]

This is a relatively level-headed thing that scratches the surface of the alleged spook links:

Was Jeffrey Epstein a Spy?

The exaggerated stories the notorious financier pedophile told of his time in intelligence circles may have been at least partially true.

www.rollingstone.com

The reporting of the Miami Herald people, which broke the story years ago, included one claim that a prosecutor (or investigator?) had been warned off by a Fed who told him "Epstein belongs to intelligence".

If he ever was working for them or not, we will surely never know for certain, or at least not for a very long time.

 

[LDC]

it wouldn't be a massive surprise if he passed bits of info to various government and intelligence agencies given his life and contacts (and his ego and narcissism) as thousands of people do, but that's very different to 'working for them' on some kind of more serious basis.

 

[Carl Steele]

He hung, sorry hanged, himself, with a strip of bedsheet, from the lower bunk? How does a man who's 6 feet tall do this? He didn't have a cellmate (which he was required to have) and three cameras malfunctioned at the same time, and he was supposed to be looked in on every 30 minutes but wasn't. Leaving aside the availability of other materials which were more suitable for self-hanging than a bedsheet, and the argument over the damage to his neck, how does the suicide claim make any sense?

 

[LDC]

It's reasonably common to hang yourself from something low. It doesn't need your body to be free hanging, just that your slumped body brings enough weight on your neck. You tie it tight round your neck and a fixed point and slump down and if done right (and you don't panic/backtrack) you quickly lose consciousness, and then once that happens the lack of blood and oxygen to your head does the rest.

I have no idea (and don't care) if it was suicide or murder, but people saying it must be murder as hanging in those circumstances is impossible are wrong.

 

[seeformiles]

He hung, sorry hanged, himself, with a strip of bedsheet, from the lower bunk? How does a man who's 6 feet tall do this? He didn't have a cellmate (which he was required to have) and three cameras malfunctioned at the same time, and he was supposed to be looked in on every 30 minutes but wasn't. Leaving aside the availability of other materials which were more suitable for self-hanging than a bedsheet, and the argument over the damage to his neck, how does the suicide claim make any sense?

The Mother Jones article points out features of his “suicide” that pointed more towards strangulation - stuff about the mark on his neck and bones broken that wouldn’t be consistent with suicide via a bedsheet noose. Also details that there was broken skin in the neck wound and no blood on the bed sheet. It’s probably grassy knoll territory but there it is anyway.

 

[Orang Utan]

He hung, sorry hanged, himself, with a strip of bedsheet, from the lower bunk? How does a man who's 6 feet tall do this? He didn't have a cellmate (which he was required to have) and three cameras malfunctioned at the same time, and he was supposed to be looked in on every 30 minutes but wasn't. Leaving aside the availability of other materials which were more suitable for self-hanging than a bedsheet, and the argument over the damage to his neck, how does the suicide claim make any sense?

It makes total sense. People have hanged themselves from towel rails on the back of doors. Height is irrelevant.
Why would anyone else bother killing him anyway?

 

[bluescreen]

<snip>
Why would anyone else bother killing him anyway?

Er... he had a lot of kompromat on a lot of powerful people...

Btw, what's happened to that, and is it all in one place, destroyed, or disseminated widely among lesser kompromat holders?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

And presumably the guards being asleep was a stroke of good fortune? Unless they had been drugged. But then surely they'd have kicked up a fuss about it instead of falsifying records.

 

[Carl Steele]

It makes total sense. People have hanged themselves from towel rails on the back of doors. Height is irrelevant.
Why would anyone else bother killing him anyway?

The thing that interests me here is not so much did Epstein kill himself or not, and it seems to me unlikely that he did, but still possible, but I wonder why some people are so invested in the idea that he wasn't murdered, when the evidence is at best unclear.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The thing that interests me here is not so much did Epstein kill himself or not, and it seems to me unlikely that he did, but still possible, but I wonder why some people are so invested in the idea that he wasn't murdered, when the evidence is at best unclear.

Because murdering someone in a secure facility without any witnesses might be somewhat tricky? How did they get the key/s for his cell?

 

[bluescreen]

And presumably the guards being asleep was a stroke of good fortune? Unless they had been drugged. But then surely they'd have kicked up a fuss about it instead of falsifying records.

Whether suicide or murder (!) there are probably some guards somewhere with a larger than average pension. He could easily have paid people to look the other way.

 

[Carl Steele]

People have hanged themselves from towel rails on the back of doors.

Do you have an example of this being done?

 

[Carl Steele]

Because murdering someone in a secure facility without any witnesses might be somewhat tricky? How did they get the key/s for his cell?

I really can't imagine how this could have happened.

 

[seeformiles]

Do you have an example of this being done?

Michael Hutchence?

 

[cozmikbrew]

He hung, sorry hanged, himself, with a strip of bedsheet, from the lower bunk? How does a man who's 6 feet tall do this? He didn't have a cellmate (which he was required to have) and three cameras malfunctioned at the same time, and he was supposed to be looked in on every 30 minutes but wasn't. Leaving aside the availability of other materials which were more suitable for self-hanging than a bedsheet, and the argument over the damage to his neck, how does the suicide claim make any sense?

I thought that,if he was on suicide watch he should have been padded up with someone an looked in on every half hour

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Whether suicide or murder (!) there are probably some guards somewhere with a larger than average pension. He could easily have paid people to look the other way.

So we're going by the theory that someone wanted him dead who was connected to a guard on the inside who managed to pay off co-workers to do the deed?

 

[Orang Utan]

Er... he had a lot of kompromat on a lot of powerful people...

Btw, what's happened to that, and is it all in one place, destroyed, or disseminated widely among lesser kompromat holders?

what makes you think he still had any leverage?

 

[bluescreen]

So we're going by the theory that someone wanted him dead who was connected to a guard on the inside who managed to pay off co-workers to do the deed?

Not necessarily. I'm easily persuaded that Epstein himself could have persuaded people to look the other way. He was an expert conman. It's very possible they never even got paid.

 

[Orang Utan]

Do you have an example of this being done?

Not to hand, but i've read of these things. try the internet

 

[bluescreen]

what makes you think he still had any leverage?

That he knew where the files were

 

[Orang Utan]

The thing that interests me here is not so much did Epstein kill himself or not, and it seems to me unlikely that he did, but still possible, but I wonder why some people are so invested in the idea that he wasn't murdered, when the evidence is at best unclear.

cos it's so blatantly obvious he did kill himself, whereas the alternative is very unlikely

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Not necessarily. I'm easily persuaded that Epstein himself could have persuaded people to look the other way. He was an expert conman. It's very possible they never even got paid.

Ah yes, but nobody is disputing it could have been suicide.

 

[bluescreen]

Ah yes, but nobody is disputing it could have been suicide.

Sorry - I'm suggesting he could have facilitated his own suicide by persuading his guards to look the other way. I'm not suggesting it was murder. I doubt it was but it could have been.

 

[Carl Steele]

cos it's so blatantly obvious he did kill himself, whereas the alternative is very unlikely

Why is it so obvious?