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Prince Andrew, Duke of York, named in underage 'sex slave' lawsuit

bluescreen said:
Sorry - I'm suggesting he could have facilitated his own suicide by persuading his guards to look the other way. I'm not suggesting it was murder. I doubt it was but it could have been.
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he wouldn't have needed to - it doesn't take half an hour to hang yourself
 
Orang Utan said:
what makes you think he wouldn't have used all of that leverage already? that kompromat was never going to see the light of day but there was no need to off him to ensure this
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I don't know. It's complicated. He was a conman and a gambler and maybe his long game didn't pay off, the same way Maxwell's didn't.

What do you think has happened to the kompromat? I'm pretty sure it will have been duplicated and more, and maybe that's how he lost his power.
 
Carl Steele said:
Hutchence was apparently full of alcohol, prozac and cocaine which presumably Epstein wasn't. Hanging yourself in this way while drugged is somewhat different from doing it stone cold sober (I would imagine).
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You forgot the bitter phonecall from Bob Geldorf.
 
Carl Steele said:
Hutchence was apparently full of alcohol, prozac and cocaine which presumably Epstein wasn't. Hanging yourself in this way while drugged is somewhat different from doing it stone cold sober (I would imagine).
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so it would be even easier for Epstein to hang himself, as he wasn't as impaired as Hutchence
 
bluescreen said:
I don't know. It's complicated. He was a conman and a gambler and maybe his long game didn't pay off, the same way Maxwell's didn't.

What do you think has happened to the kompromat? I'm pretty sure it will have been duplicated and more, and maybe that's how he lost his power.
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he'd have used it all already. offing him would be locking the stable door after the horse has bolted
 
equationgirl said:
He was facing a very long sentence without any of the comforts he was used to, and just couldn't take it anymore?

Why is it not obvious?
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I suppose it's not obvious because people who knew (or thought they knew) him believed it was totally out of character.
Because a chancer will always try and throw the dice one more time.

But yeah, I reckon he did, but not that it's totally obvious.
 
Carl Steele said:
Hutchence was apparently full of alcohol, prozac and cocaine which presumably Epstein wasn't. Hanging yourself in this way while drugged is somewhat different from doing it stone cold sober (I would imagine).
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As far as I know it was a bit of a “stranglewank” (see also David Carradine) but this does not rule out a deliberate hanging attempt so it’s a perfectly possible and practical method.
 
Orang Utan said:
he'd have used it all already. offing him would be locking the stable door after the horse has bolted
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I'm not getting this. He could still have named names, pointed to evidence. He knew too much.

I'm not saying he was murdered - I reckon on balance suicide is far more likely but that we will never know.
 
Orang Utan said:
cos he was found hanging in his cell, while awaiting trial for trafficking and abuse and he knew he'd be found guilty
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Bonus points awarded for conciseness and compactness with this argument - I’ve seen carrots with more fat on them. :thumbs:
 
Magnus McGinty said:
Bizarre then that he wasn't murdered the first time he was inside. Or at any time after.
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You mean, when he had the sweetheart deal?
FGS
It was a situation of mutual assured destruction after that.

FWIW, if you read my posts, I'm not saying it was murder. I reckon suicide far more likely. But murder before trial when he could have struck a deal isn't impossible.
 
bluescreen said:
You mean, when he had the sweetheart deal?
FGS
It was a situation of mutual assured destruction after that.

FWIW, if you read my posts, I'm not saying it was murder. I reckon suicide far more likely. But murder before trial when he could have struck a deal isn't impossible.
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But nobody knew he would get a sweetheart deal until he did. Hindsight is wonderful but nobody has a crystal ball.
 
bluescreen said:
You mean, when he had the sweetheart deal?
FGS
It was a situation of mutual assured destruction after that.

FWIW, if you read my posts, I'm not saying it was murder. I reckon suicide far more likely. But murder before trial when he could have struck a deal isn't impossible.
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would he not have struck that deal already?
i read people saying that Maxwell was going to name names during the trial to get a better deal, but that time had been and gone already
 
Psychiatric nurse calling (locked units in acute, tertiary and forensic mental health units). I’ve actually cut a ligature off a patient. For what it’s worth i always thought this stunk. He would not have been able to end his life on any of the units I’ve worked on. Because of his impending trial and the subsequent associated stress (trigger factor +++) he’d have likely been put on a 1:1 (especially as he’d already attempted suicide). And every member of staff would have been acutely aware of his situation. Guards falling asleep (All of them????). No chance. CCTV out? Ours goes out from time to time but we call security and they fix it within the hour generally. And we’d make sure we put a stable cell mate in with him who was working with us If it was possible. I’m aware his lawyer petitioned to have his cell mate removed. That should have been rejected by the prison management. It’s not a hard argument to make.
 
Orang Utan said:
he'd have used it all already. offing him would be locking the stable door after the horse has bolted
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As it happens I don't think so, even though he very likely did kill himself. His best chance of using the information to get off would be formally cooperating with authorities in exchange for reduced charges and sentence, so he wouldn't want to disclose anything before this process. But that would require him to be able to provide enough evidence to convict people who the US authorities wanted to convict more than him. And if he couldn't use the information to get off I can't imagine people like him releasing it in some sort of final fuck you, more likely he knew he reached the end of the road and acted accordingly (much like Robert Maxwell)
 
Combustible said:
As it happens I don't think so, even though he very likely did kill himself. His best chance of using the information to get off would be formally cooperating with authorities in exchange for reduced charges and sentence, so he wouldn't want to disclose anything before this process. But that would require him to be able to provide enough evidence to convict people who the US authorities wanted to convict more than him. And if he couldn't use the information to get off I can't imagine people like him releasing it in some sort of final fuck you, more likely he knew he reached the end of the road and acted accordingly (much like Robert Maxwell)
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Exactly - so no one!
 
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