equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
It's not like there's an approval procedure to go through to be 'allowed' to commit genocide, is there? They tend to just fucking do it.
Prince Andrew, Duke of York, named in underage 'sex slave' lawsuit
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
To some extent, yes...but it was Ridley that failed to get the islanders or tory backwoodsmen to back his sale & leaseback policy.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Yes, but it doesn't take much beyond that to think that both parties in a stupid pointless war might be at fault
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
It was being argued earlier that the Brits were morally in the wrong because the Argentinian soldiers were conscripts (they weren't all conscripts, but let's ignore that). You'd agree that an army should be stopped from doing bad shit when ordered, even if they're conscripts?
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
wasn't it actually being argued that Prince Nonce was morally wrong, not the cannon fodder who were aggressively recruited from the poorest areas, just like they are now and always have been? Prince Nonce could have sat at home and done nowt. He wasn't an infantryman who saw few options to earn a living but join the army
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I wouldn't characterise them as childish
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Well the islanders told him to fuck off! Several times.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Exactly.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
But they weren't being unreasonable.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Well, that's debatable, but evidently the FO had not put in sufficient preparatory 'legwork' into winning hearts & minds for the reasonable leaseback proposals. Would have saved many lives.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
What would the legwork have been? How would you have convinced the islanders that falling under Galteiri's rule in a few year's time was fine and dandy? The "reasonable proposals" were rejected by Argentina.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Night.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I don’t consider cannon fodder as volunteers
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Not just a nonce, a sweaty nonce.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Ahhh, the old U75 ''private soldiers are all from economically disadvantaged backgrounds" schtik!
It's utter tosh, btw.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
You can assert whatever you like without any qualifications
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Yes, there's no evidence to support the belief because that sort of information is not formally collected as part of the application process. There are some limited studies referred to in this article House of Commons - Defence - Written Evidence which do bear out the general hypothesis.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
To the regiment!!!
It's always fun when the old brigade wax lyrical about the glory days of Thatcher's/Blair's* Super Army Soldiers when they were a bulwark against fascism, etc, etc...
*Delete as appropriate
It's always fun when the old brigade wax lyrical about the glory days of Thatcher's/Blair's* Super Army Soldiers when they were a bulwark against fascism, etc, etc...
*Delete as appropriate
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
An interesting read which certainly doesn't bear out OU's "cannon fodder" theory. This bit especially "30% of all recruits were exceptionally motivated and qualified young people who had wanted to join the Army for a long time" explodes it. Be interested to hear kebabking's opinion.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Hope it’s true cos otherwise that would make anyone who joins culpable
I know there are several more pages I haven’t read yet. But if this is what his lawyers think. Why don’t they want to you know have it opened and read. Why just presume it might say that but we don’t want you to open it to check.
Because I suspect it was drawn tighter than you suggest. And it offers him no such indemnity. Also how in forcible with such a broad agreement be anyway. Rhetorical question. I know what I think is the truth of the matter.
Humberto
Callooh! Callay!
Whereas '40% were joining as a last resort', probably because:
Educational background
The Army has a long tradition of working with Basic Skills (BS) needs among recruits. However, the increasingly competitive labour market and the need for a multi-skilled workforce capable of responding flexibly to changing demands and roles have brought the Army's BS issues into sharper focus in recent years. Latest Army research suggests that up to 50% of all recruits joining the Service have literacy or numeracy skills at levels at or below those expected of an 11 year old (ie Entry Level 3 or below). This is broadly comparable with the recent national Skills for Life survey conducted by DfES (October 2003).
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
It's a damning indictment of the DfE that so many kids leave school with naff all learned, doss around for a bit, drift in to the forces and discover they are not thick as they were told by school, thickos don't service helicopters, fix tanks, lead troops on night hikes over rough terrain. It is the saviour of many youngsters in this country, regardless of how many people the same politicos who fucked up the education system demand it goes and kills elsewhere. Ire, as always needs aiming at Westminster.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I expect they want to rely on it in these proceedings, but for the contents not to be made public, because that'd be a breach of the protective order in the other proceedings. I suspect they know what's in it, and will try to persuade the court that it effectively bars these proceedings, but that will be a matter for the court to interpret.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
Anecdote doesn't equal data and all that, but an ex was a squaddie who was exceptionally motivated and had wanted to join the army for a long time... because he'd been in the army cadets in a working class area of Salford while he was in high school. He signed up as a school leaver, ended up serving in Desert Storm and unfortunately some of his comrades in arms didn't make it back. So, yeah, infantry, young cannon fodder.
And also my own daughter wanted to join, started off in the army cadets as a teenager when she was staying with my sister who was a manager of a NAAFI store on an army base, she got me to sign the paperwork so that she could join up under the age of 18. I didn't want to, of course, but figured she'd never forgive me if I stood in the way and prevented her. But then she got rejected because of having an ADHD diagnosis. They still let her join the TA though and she was trying to get in through the side door that way. She was exceptionally motivated too, albeit a trained chef, although in the TA she was doing something with Signals.
There will be lots of young army cadets who are exceptionally motivated to join the army.
Also, those who join via university sponsorship will be 'exceptionally motivated' too, by the army paying their tuition fees and living expenses so they don't end up about £50k in debt, and they will probably have wanted to join for a long time too, because it was probably a career path planned via army cadets as a teenager.
'exceptionally motivated and wanted to join for a long time' still encompasses a lot of young people who were recruited by the army targeting young people from deprived areas, including those who'd been indoctrinated by army cadets.
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