Pop and Rock Stars... and underage girls

[purves grundy]

Is there any other activity that used to be socially acceptable/something everyone did, but has now become a crime/terrible deed? Plenty of drug-related activity, I would guess - heroin/cocaine used to be a thing polite society did once upon a time. Struggling to think of anything else, though.

Not so much activities but think how much attitudes to social issues like mental health, physical disabilities, race etc have changed. Bullying too. I like to think we're better at identifying and dealing with the callous and exploitative now (then again, Tories an that). Don't think there's anything viewed as so sinister as the sexual exploiter though - there's a gulf in the level of social disapproval of say, someone doing a Joey Deacon impression behind someone with cerebral palsey and an 18-year old waiting outside the school gates for his 14-year old girlfriend. Both of which were very common during my 80s childhood.

 

[8den]

All of which makes him an ideal candidate for membership of the Irish political establishment.

While I grant you that the majority of Irish political leaders are stupid corrupt and veinal I struggle to think of any one of them actively covering up child abuse or ordering the torture and execution of a single mother.

 

[discokermit]

i'd like to ask all the bowie whitewashers how they do it?

seriously. i used to absolutely love the sound of david ruffin's voice until i found out he hit tammi terrel in the head with a hammer. i'd love to be able to listen to the temptations again without that thought popping into my head. he had more and better excuses than bowie as well. drugs as well as a terrible childhood. and it's easier to use the ''separate the art from the artist'' with him as he wasn't a writer of the songs but this must be more difficult to do with bowie as the lyrics are the poetic thoughts of a man at various times gripped by right wing paranoia and having sex with a thirteen year old.

any help?

 

[redcogs]

This is not a thread about Bowie, this is a more general thread about issues raised by his death

One of the issues raised by his death might be whether his contribution to art and culture music and politics was valuable (or not)?

my answer is i'm not sure.

i don't believe in having sex with underage people, so im a bit critical of Mr Bowie in this area.

On the other hand, i've been a hypocrite in my life, on several occasions. So i'm a little reluctant to hurl too much shit.

Its the peril of being liberal 'spose.

 

[Idris2002]

While I grant you that the majority of Irish political leaders are stupid corrupt and veinal I struggle to think of any one of them actively covering up child abuse or ordering the torture and execution of a single mother.

Our glorious Taoiseach is the direct political descendant of the fellow who started the practice of executing informers, and whose forces were given to such charming activities as executing anti-government troops by tying them to land mines. He and his colleagues have been quite happy to let people be transported through Shannon airport to the CIA's black sites, where they can be tortured at will.

As for covering up child abuse, have you really forgotten what used to go on in Ireland? And do you really think the Irish political establishment was not complicit in that?

I don't like GERRY and I'm sceptical of SF's claim to be a progressive party, but I think you've let your dislike of the man blind you to the wider picture.

 

[Ranbay]

I had sex with underage girls of 14/15 when I was 17/18, but then I haven't released any pop or rock records.

 

[krtek a houby]

Our glorious Taoiseach is the direct political descendant of the fellow who started the practice of executing informers, and was given to such charming activities as executing anti-government troops by tying them to land mines. He and his colleagues have been quite happy to let people be transported through Shannon airport to the CIA's black site, where they can be tortured at will.

As for covering up child abuse, have you really forgotten what used to go on in Ireland? And do you really think the Irish political establishment was not complicit in that?

I don't like GERRY and I'm sceptical of SF's claim to be a progressive party, but I think you've let your dislike of the man blind you to the wider picture.

Hmm. Good point. I'm sure FG have had some better moments, surely?

 

[discokermit]

It's pretty straightforward.

you would think so, wouldn't you?

 

[billy_bob]

Fair enough, well I am sorry for not making it clearer. As I said, this one's a tricky bugger to navigate!

For what it's worth I don't honestly think editor was taking a shot at emanymton's dyslexia, simply his spelling, although I do think that's a bit of a cheap and unnecessary shot to score points on anyway. Dyslexia is a tricky one because you don't know if someone has dyslexia or made a typo, but in either situation it's a bit of an unnecessary thing to take them to task over during a debate about a completely separate subject.

Plus, I know emanymton started a thread a while back about the low-level abuse people get on here for spelling so I think it's something he's sensitive to.

As you say, you can't see someone's disabilities online. That might be a reason not to sneer at someone's spelling in an otherwise reasonable post, but when someone's being deliberately provocative it's disengenous to turn round and act appalled if anyone rises to it. Maybe it would be a better world if no-one ever did rise to it, but that's human nature, right? On the internet as in life, we tend to mirror the tone and attitude of what we're responding to: angry and intemperate posts get shouted at, cheap and snide ones get cheap shots back.

 

[Idris2002]

Hmm. Good point. I'm sure FG have had some better moments, surely?

Oh god. You think FG is still Garrett's party, don't you? You poor eejit.

 

[discokermit]

You know about it now though. Most decent people would simply apologise and move on. It's perfectly possible to censure a poster without reference to their spelling.

decent. that's the important word in that post. what it hinges on.

 

[krtek a houby]

Oh god. You think FG is still Garrett's party, don't you? You poor eejit.

I haven't a clue, mate. I don't get back much these days and FF, FG, Labour, PDs, DL, Greens, SF are all the same to me.

On a personal level, I met Garrett back in the 90s and found him to be an amiable sort. But then, I met Bertie too and thought the same thing!

 

[Spymaster]

decent. that's the important word in that post. what it hinges on.

You'll get a warning if you're not careful.

 

[discokermit]

You'll get a warning if you're not careful.

i don't give a fuck what that cunt does.

 

[8den]

Our glorious Taoiseach is the direct political descendant of the fellow who started the practice of executing informers, and whose forces were given to such charming activities as executing anti-government troops by tying them to land mines.

So Endas guilt of his grandfathers crimes?

Jesus that's a fucking stretch.

He and his colleagues have been quite happy to let people be transported through Shannon airport to the CIA's black sites, where they can be tortured at will.

As for covering up child abuse, have you really forgotten what used to go on in Ireland? And do you really think the Irish political establishment was not complicit in that?

I don't like GERRY and I'm sceptical of SF's claim to be a progressive party, but I think you've let your dislike of the man blind you to the wider picture.

I think there's a world of difference between the states complicity with clerical sexual abuse & having your own niece come to you and tell you she is being raped and not only do nothing about it but let your brother continue to act as a youth worker in two different jobs.

And you'll notice I've never once defended or justified any Irish governments handling of clerical sex abuse

 

[Spymaster]

Phwoar, steady on mate. Don't want to lose you!

@discokermit

 

[Lord Camomile]

As you say, you can't see someone's disabilities online. That might be a reason not to sneer at someone's spelling in an otherwise reasonable post, but when someone's being deliberately provocative it's disengenous to turn round and act appalled if anyone rises to it. Maybe it would be a better world if no-one ever did rise to it, but that's human nature, right? On the internet as in life, we tend to mirror the tone and attitude of what we're responding to: angry and intemperate posts get shouted at, cheap and snide ones get cheap shots back.

I honestly don't think emanymton was being disingenuous in their reaction though - I think they are clearly sensitive about their spelling so when someone takes a pop shot at it emanymton honestly gets quite upset.

And while yes, in "the heat of the battle" we'll say something stupid that doesn't really reflect our better selves, the virtue of being on a web forum and writing stuff down is that you get a moment to reflect on what you've said and edit before hitting "post", and then also cool down and apologies in subsequent posts while not necessarily undermining whatever your original point was. Sometimes easier said than done though, I'll concede.

 

[Idris2002]

I haven't a clue, mate. I don't get back much these days and FF, FG, Labour, PDs, DL, Greens, SF are all the same to me.

On a personal level, I met Garrett back in the 90s and found him to be an amiable sort. But then, I met Bertie too and thought the same thing!

PDs, DL, Greens?

It's worse than I thought. You're from the 1990s.

 

[LiamO]

I had sex with underage girls of 14/15 when I was 17/18, but then I haven't released any pop or rock records.

Really? I never did.

To the best of my knowledge, the only times I had any kind of sexual contact with anyone I knew was under 16 was when I was myself under 16. Between the ages of 12 and 16, of course, my only aim in life (and that of my mates) was to have as much sexual contact as possible - whether this was with girls our own age (or 1 year younger) or, better still, older 'women' (ie girls 1 or more years older than us).

When I was 21/22 I worked two summers on a holiday camp and was propositioned many times by underage girls - as was everybody else with a penis and two eyes. Basically at that age, there would be no excuse for encouraging or engaging in it. We knew it was both wrong and definitely dangerous to your liberty (or life). I realise this may have been something more of a grey area for some of my 18-yr old colleagues.

Given that we were surrounded by 150 other staff - who were all 18+ and were all on their own personal discovery of sex 'n' drugs, plus all the young single mothers there on holiday, there really was no need to chase young girls. Unless of course you were that way inclined. A few were. The vast majority were not.

 

[emanymton]

Edit changed my post didn't mean to quote Spymaster

That was absolutely the case. It had NOTHING to do with his dyslexia (which I knew nothing about) but everything to do with his unpleasant and inappropriate post and the cheap insults he threw around.

Thinking about it, prior to you posting this I had mentioned on two threads I know you are reading that you had posted on my thread about dyslexia. It seems odd for your make no reference to it. Come on you know you were wrong, maybe that is why you keep avoiding posts directly relating to it. Just apologise, and we can get on with the business of disagreeing about Bowie. You can go back to telling me to fuck of instead if it will make you feel better.

 

[Ranbay]

Really? I never did.

To the best of my knowledge, the only times I had any kind of sexual contact with anyone I knew was under 16 was when I was myself under 16. Between the ages of 12 and 16, of course, my only aim in life (and that of my mates) was to have as much sexual contact as possible - whether this was with girls my own age or, better still, older 'women' (ie girls 1 or more years older than us).

When I was 21/22 I worked two summers on a holiday camp and was propositioned many times by underage girls - as was everybody else with a penis and two eyes. Basically at that age, there would be no excuse for encouraging or engaging in it. We knew it was both wrong and definitely dangerous to your liberty (or life). I realise this may have been something more of a grey area for some of my 18-yr old colleagues.

Given that we were surrounded by 150 other staff - who were all 18+ and were all on their own personal discovery of sex 'n' drugs, plus all the young single mothers there on holiday, there really was no need to chase young girls. Unless of course you were that way inclined. A few were. The vast majority were not.

yes really, (you may notice other people say, my mates brother or this friend in school did)

unless you mean the pop and rock records bit?

 

[Idris2002]

So Endas guilt of his grandfathers crimes?

Jesus that's a fucking stretch.




I think there's a world of difference between the states complicity with clerical sexual abuse & having your own niece come to you and tell you she is being raped and not only do nothing about it but let your brother continue to act as a youth worker in two different jobs.

I don't agree that there's that big a difference, and I contend further that the idea that Adams' guilt is qualitatively different is not a credible one.

 

[Spymaster]

Thinking about it, prior to you posting this I had mentioned on two threads I know you are reading that you had posted on my thread about dyslexia. It seems odd for your make no reference to it. Come on you know you were wrong, maybe that is why you keep avoiding posts directly relating to it. Just apologise, and we can get on with the business of disagreeing about Bowie. You can go back to telling me to fuck of instead if it will make you feel better.

Perhaps he might think about rescinding my totally unreasonable warning whilst he's at it.

It makes him look completely vindictive and high-handed.

 

[krtek a houby]

PDs, DL, Greens?

It's worse than I thought. You're from the 1990s.

Let's put it this way, I remember when being me was illegal

 

[eoin_k]

One comment suggesting that 8den is exhibiting double standards and he tries to turns this into a thread about Irish politics... I've never been an apologist for Adams's behaviour in this affair. My only points 8den was that there seemed to be double standards with which you relish an opportunity to reflect upon it and your attempts to silence Liam's comments - on this thread - about Bowie's apparent abuse of his sexual power over much younger women.

I'm no more equating the two than I'm equating Bowie with Hitler when pointing out that taking lots of drugs isn't a great excuse for his public racist outbursts.

 

[LiamO]

yes really, (you may notice other people say, my mates brother or this friend in school did)

unless you mean the pop and rock records bit?

Nope.

I remember there being a wierd kind of snobbery around at the time. Once you were 'legal' it was considered somehow 'uncool' to have sex with 'jailbait' (a term which was applied to both girls a couple of years younger and also to those a few week's younger than you who, up until you turned 16, were super desirable).

Having said that, I'm sure some of those whowe met in Pub's at 16-19 were probably telling porkies about their age.

That's a whole lot different to a grown man in a position of power/authority 'de-virginising' young girls he knows are well below the AoC though.

 

[kebabking]

i started a thread some years ago asking why it was acceptable to play Micheal Jackson records on the radio but not Gary Glitter records.

apparently, its because they are good. how little changes.

 

[treelover]

being as the age of consent at 16 was put in place in the nineteenth century by the 1970s you'd have thought men would have worked out that there was something even the law recognised as wrong about relationships with young girls. what seems to have been different back then was that rock stars (and djs) seem to have thought the morals everyone else was expected to abide by didn't apply to them, that they were special.

THE TRUTH: Maddox was, amazingly, just 14 when she met Page, though Page did what he could to keep the relationship hidden. Even in the swingin' Seventies this kind of thing could put you in jail. But with no TMZ or Us Weekly, Page got away with it. He eventually dumped Maddox for the of-legal-age Bebe Buell.

Read more: Jimmy Page Dated a 14-year-old Girl While He Was in Led Zeppelin - The 10 Wildest Led Zeppelin Legends, Fact-Checked
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[Pickman's model]

treelover i don't know what point you're trying to make in post #178

 

[LiamO]

Perhaps he might think about rescinding my totally unreasonable warning whilst he's at it.

Oh. Did you get one too? How sweet.