Pop and Rock Stars... and underage girls

[krtek a houby]

It's Diana all over again

Can you answer my question?

 

[sim667]

So basically you were bored, so you thought you'd do some unfounded finger pointing based on anecdotes, and cause a furore on a RIP thread is what you're trying to say?

 

[editor]

Yes, he's saying they're comparable. Which is not the same thing as saying they're identical.

A bit of perspective sometimes helps when you're making comparisons though.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think you meant to write "effect", not "affect" there.

the power of the pedant is strong in this one

 

[Idris2002]

the power of the pedant is strong in this one

MASTER

 

[andysays]

Has anyone called Bowie a serial rapist?...

...It is common knowledge that David Bowie... ...had sex with lots of underage girls back in his 70's heyday...

That looks to me like calling him a serial rapist.

I think it's fairly common knowledge that Bowie had sex with one particular thirteen year old girl (it gets brought up here often enough) but that doesn't make him either a serial rapist or a paedophile.

I'm a fan of some of Bowie's music, but I'm not going to try to excuse in any way his having sex with a thirteen year old - it's inexcusable.

That doesn't mean that any old unsubstantiated shit should be thrown at him, as it is being here, but it also doesn't make me like his music any less (similarly with other artists who have done cuntish things) because it's possible to separate appreciating the music from idolising the person.

And Liam is just doing his tried and tired old outrage trolling schtick, this time with added encouragement for others to do his dirty work on a thread he's already shat on and been warned off posting on again.

It's almost as if he cares more about having a pop at various posters than the actual issue he's using to do it...

 

[Pickman's model]

MASTER

i am but luke skywalker to your yoda or obi

 

[J Ed]

Can you answer my question?

If you are in grief for Bowie despite not being related to him or knowing him personally that's a bit weird anyway, I don't think that LiamO should have to account for that sort of irrationality.

 

[LiamO]

So basically you were bored, so you thought you'd do some unfounded finger pointing, a

?

 

[billy_bob]

A quote automatically links back to the original thread - there's a little arrow next to the quoted poster's name which will take you to their original post.

It is unfortunate that this thing is being carried on across two threads, but I thought quoting you on here rather than keeping it all going on the RIP thread was the lesser of two evils.

OK, I didn't know about the arrow. But still, with no explicit indication that it's not the case I think most people would assume that a quoted post is part of the discussion in which it's being quoted, not another one in which the context is significantly different.

I think Guineveretoo's responses on the other thread adequately reflect my feelings too about whether someone was really subject to cheap shots because of their disability.

I don't know whether editor was deliberately using emanymton's disability to slag him off, but it seems vanishingly unlikely on the basis of anything else I've ever read by him. To my mind it's simply been leapt on as an excuse for evading the valid criticism of being an insensitive twat on an RIP thread for someone whose work means a very great deal to many people.

Of course the latter shouldn't preclude discussions like those on this thread, but that was obviously not the time and place and emanymton's first post on that thread was a facetious wind-up, hardly a serious attempt to start a serious discussion.

 

[nino_savatte]

It went further then that. He adopted a neo-nazis persona that made public statements, eulogising Hitler and calling for a right-wing coup in Britain, during a period of racial tension.

He was later contrite about that episode and apologised, which is something that Clapton never did.

 

[sim667]

?

Anecdotal evidence is unfounded as far as I'm concerned.

 

[likesfish]

Pop star high on drugs talks shit quell suprise.

Next the member of blue views on dolphins and 9/11

Artists their works may or may not be worth something.
Their views on anything other than their work not so much

 

[discokermit]

He was also completely fucked out of his head on coke.

that's all right then. like ike turner. or some rapist/murderer/whatever that was fucked off their head on drugs when they did what they did*.

*i can't be bothered to look because there are literally hundreds of thousands of people locked up in prisons all over the globe with exactly the same excuse for their actions.

 

[bi0boy]

Are you really comparing Bowie to a man who repeatedly raped and assaulted his daughter for nearly ten years?

There's good rape, and there's bad rape, right?

 

[krtek a houby]

If you are in grief for Bowie despite not being related to him or knowing him personally that's a bit weird anyway, I don't think that LiamO should have to account for that sort of irrationality.

I don't believe it's irrational to be affected by the death of someone who has made an impact on your life.

And that goes for anybody in the public eye. I'm sure some people who had never met Thatcher or weren't related to her reacted with some emotion when she passed.

 

[8den]

Yes, he's saying they're comparable. Which is not the same thing as saying they're identical.

Btw the issue with Adams is not that his brother is a child rapist. It's that Adams was aware of his crime for years, and not only did nothing about it, but he allowed Liam to continue his job as a youth worker in two areas that Adam had control over, and when challenged on this Adams lied under oath.

The issue with Adams is not his brothers crime it's Adams complicity in his crime.

 

[killer b]

I cried a bit when I heard about his death on the radio this morning, and think he's the most significant figure in rock music of the last 50 years or so. But I don't think it's inappropriate or too soon to discuss his failings. It's the exact right time to be doing it.

 

[Idris2002]

Btw the issue with Adams is not that his brother is a child rapist. It's that Adams was aware of his crime for years, and not only did nothing about it, but he allowed Liam to continue his job as a youth worker in two areas that Adam had control over, and when challenged on this Adams lied under oath.

The issue with Adams is not his brothers crime it's Adams complicity in his crime.

All of which makes him an ideal candidate for membership of the Irish political establishment.

 

[8den]

There's good rape, and there's bad rape, right?

What a pathetically disingenuous argument, you may as well equate involuntary man slaughtered with a serial killer, because hey "they're both killers am I right"

 

[redcogs]

Saw him do an excellent 'dancing in the streets' routine with someone called Jagger a while back.

It impressed.

 

[Lord Camomile]

OK, I didn't know about the arrow. But still, with no explicit indication that it's not the case I think most people would assume that a quoted post is part of the discussion in which it's being quoted, not another one in which the context is significantly different.

Fair enough, well I am sorry for not making it clearer. As I said, this one's a tricky bugger to navigate!

I don't know whether editor was deliberately using emanymton's disability to slag him off, but it seems vanishingly unlikely on the basis of anything else I've ever read by him. To my mind it's simply been leapt on as an excuse for evading the valid criticism of being an insensitive twat on an RIP thread for someone whose work means a very great deal to many people.

For what it's worth I don't honestly think editor was taking a shot at emanymton's dyslexia, simply his spelling, although I do think that's a bit of a cheap and unnecessary shot to score points on anyway. Dyslexia is a tricky one because you don't know if someone has dyslexia or made a typo, but in either situation it's a bit of an unnecessary thing to take them to task over during a debate about a completely separate subject.

Plus, I know emanymton started a thread a while back about the low-level abuse people get on here for spelling so I think it's something he's sensitive to.

 

[TopCat]

What a pathetically disingenuous argument, you may as well equate involuntary man slaughtered with a serial killer, because hey "they're both killers am I right"

Fucking hell

 

[bi0boy]

What a pathetically disingenuous argument, you may as well equate involuntary man slaughtered with a serial killer, because hey "they're both killers am I right"

Are you equating raping a 13-year old with involuntary manslaughter?

 

[editor]

I don't know whether editor was deliberately using emanymton's disability to slag him off, but it seems vanishingly unlikely on the basis of anything else I've ever read by him. To my mind it's simply been leapt on as an excuse for evading the valid criticism of being an insensitive twat on an RIP thread for someone whose work means a very great deal to many people.

Of course the latter shouldn't preclude discussions like those on this thread, but that was obviously not the time and place and emanymton's first post on that thread was a facetious wind-up, hardly a serious attempt to start a serious discussion.

That was absolutely the case. It had NOTHING to do with his dyslexia (which I knew nothing about) but everything to do with his unpleasant and inappropriate post and the cheap insults he threw around.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Saw him do an excellent 'dancing in the streets' routine with someone called Jagger a while back.

It impressed.

This is not a thread about Bowie, this is a more general thread about issues raised by his death

 

[emanymton]

That was absolutely the case. It had NOTHING to do with his dyslexia (which I knew nothing about) but everything to do with his unpleasant and inappropriate post and the cheap insults he threw around.

This is what you said on my thread about it.

Surely the title should read: "A very, very small handful of posters on Urban 75 are hostile to people with dyslexia (and presumably other similar disabilities)"?

I don't like to hear of anyone getting picked on, but I really wouldn't describe the overall vibe here as 'hostile'. I'd say it's one of the most supportive communities on the web, in fact.

 

[deadringer]

Maybe

Btw the issue with Adams is not that his brother is a child rapist. It's that Adams was aware of his crime for years, and not only did nothing about it, but he allowed Liam to continue his job as a youth worker in two areas that Adam had control over, and when challenged on this Adams lied under oath.

The issue with Adams is not his brothers crime it's Adams complicity in his crime.

Maybe Adams was off his head on Coke at the time.....

 

[DaveCinzano]

It's pretty straightforward. We as a society should not tolerate grown men fucking children. No free passes whether they are much loved cultural icons, captains of industry, important power brokers, close friends, family members or blokes down the pub.

How can we hope for a world in which our daughters are not harassed or demeaned or raped - or a world in which our sons do not harass or demean or rape - if we collectively are prepared to dole out free passes to the abusers with the most charisma?

 

[Spymaster]

That was absolutely the case. It had NOTHING to do with his dyslexia (which I knew nothing about) but everything to do with his unpleasant and inappropriate post and the cheap insults he threw around.

You know about it now though. Most decent people would simply apologise and move on. It's perfectly possible to censure a poster without reference to their spelling.