Pop and Rock Stars... and underage girls

[Pickman's model]

We can always rely on your relentless dedication to such tasks.

you can now

 

[LiamO]

Can people just ignore LiamOs blatant trolling...

If he was a Republican politician's brother you would be singing a different tune.

too-fuckin-che me old cocksparrer

 

[Lord Camomile]

Rather dishonest of you to quote my post in a thread in which I didn't post it.

I'm trying to keep the debate off the RIP thread out of respect for those affected by his death. It's easy for people to follow your quote back to establish context, or for you to provide further context if you feel it's necessary.

 

[Plumdaff]

you can now

I feel tremendously cowed, and will absolutely be on my best behaviour.

 

[J Ed]

His music was shit anyway (as well as him being a nonce)

 

[Pickman's model]

His music was shit anyway (as well as him being a nonce)

in that case you'll be glad to know he is unlikely to produce any new material.

 

[discokermit]

I was a teenager in the 90s so I don't have any other experience. And I'm not asking my mum

so, as you didn't exist much, if at all, in the seventies and i did, can you accept my experience of it could possibly be more valid than yours without it being ''mansplaining''?

 

[billy_bob]

I'm trying to keep the debate of the RIP thread out of respect for those affected by his death. It's easy for people to follow your quote back to establish context, or for you to provide further context if you feel it's necessary.

You took my response out of context and then say it's my responsibility to contextualise it?

You didn't link to the original post on the other thread, so only people who have read both threads closely will find it 'easy to follow my quote back'.

 

[Lord Camomile]

People affected by Bowie's death? People who never met or knew the man? Are you mental?

No should invest that much in any star.

You don't have to have met or known someone to be hugely affected by their work/actions, particularly with artists. It's not about someone being a 'star' (well, sometimes it is, but an equal amount of time it isn't), it's about what the affect their lives had on others.

 

[Idris2002]

You don't have to have met or known someone to be hugely affected by their work/actions, particularly with artists. It's not about someone being a 'star' (well, sometimes it is, but an equal amount of time it isn't), it's about what the affect their lives had on others.

I think you meant to write "effect", not "affect" there.

 

[Lord Camomile]

You took my response out of context and then say it's my responsibility to contextualise it?

You didn't link to the original post on the other thread, so only people who have read both threads closely will find it 'easy to follow my quote back'.

A quote automatically links back to the original thread - there's a little arrow next to the quoted poster's name which will take you to their original post.

It is unfortunate that this thing is being carried on across two threads, but I thought quoting you on here rather than keeping it all going on the RIP thread was the lesser of two evils.

 

[The Boy]

in that case you'll be glad to know he is unlikely to produce any new material.

Didn't they say that about 2Pac?

 

[Lord Camomile]

I think you meant to write "effect", not "affect" there.

Fuck it, changed the sentence half way through writing it and forgot to amend the grammar accordingly, didn't I?

 

[sim667]

In fairness, my point is not so much that 'Bowie's (and lots of others) behaviour was completely disgusting and shouldn't just be whitewashed out.' but...

a) The blatant hypocrisy in how we view what they did. If we like or admire a person's work there is a tendency to focus on their achievements/canon of work rather than their sexual shortcomings. If we don't like them then we focus on their sexual proclivities and ignore their work.

If Bowie had been a politician, especially a tory one, or Jim Davidson or how many people would be queueing up to demand he get a poitive-comments-only RIP thread? None. In fact clowns like 8den would probably be leading the charge to pillory them.

b) I would recognise that how Bowie et al carried was wrong and exploitative but, as has been noted above, it was something that was both widespread and mostly sniggered at at the time. Anybody at the same shite these days would have no such excuses.

It seems a bit daft to me to project modern-day conventional wisdom onto the actions of people 40/50 years ago.

Whats happened until innocent until proven guilty? I've no doubt that he may have slept with underage girls (and possibly boys too), but there is a legal framework in place where they can report it. Yet as far as I know there have never been any investigations into Bowies conduct, and bringing a bunch of unfounded allegations up in an RIP thread seems a bit of a cunts trick to be totally honest.

That said, its a conversation that does need to be have, especially in light of the ongoing probes, but there's a time and a place, and an RIP thread, is not it, especially as there's been no specific public allegation against him.

 

[J Ed]

I can't believe some of the responses to LiamO, they justify the video he put up perfectly. I think that the way that the internet encourages this low effort hysterical collective mourning of celebrities is very unhealthy in the first place partly because it leads to outcomes like this.

 

[redcogs]

'a space oddity' is a track which remains good to listen to on a decent hifi system which will reproduce some decent lower registers. Apart from that, Mr Bowie could be taken or left.

Didn't he have an unfortunate flirtation with far right iconography?

 

[krtek a houby]

I can't believe some of the responses to LiamO, they justify the video he put up perfectly. I think that the way that the internet encourages this low effort hysterical collective mourning of celebrities is very unhealthy in the first place partly because they lead to outcomes like this.

His putting up that "comedy" video, was like a drive by tagging. If he'd meant to have a serious discussion on inappropriate sexual behaviour; surely he could have started this thread first, without posting on the RIP thread?

 

[Glitter]

so, as you didn't exist much, if at all, in the seventies and i did, can you accept my experience of it could possibly be more valid than yours without it being ''mansplaining''?

I haven't said anything about your experience of anything?

 

[LiamO]

Oh, to use a concrete example from previously on u75 - Cilla Black. Did Cilla Black get a respectful and entirely positive RIP thread?

Indeed she did not.

Many people commented, including myself, commented on her working-class-tory/celebrity-tory-icon status.

Others commented on the fact that she was pally with a lot of celebrity nonces (both those convicted in courts and those long-convicted by rumour)

 

[eoin_k]

'a space oddity' is a track which remains good to listen to on a decent hifi system which will reproduce some decent lower registers. Apart from that, Mr Bowie could be taken or left.

Didn't he have an unfortunate flirtation with far right iconography?

It went further then that. He adopted a neo-nazis persona that made public statements, eulogising Hitler and calling for a right-wing coup in Britain, during a period of racial tension.

 

[J Ed]

His putting up that "comedy" video, was like a drive by tagging. If he'd meant to have a serious discussion on inappropriate sexual behaviour; surely he could have started this thread first, without posting on the RIP thread?

I did not realise that certain celebrities required 'safe spaces' from discussion of their rape of children.

 

[editor]

His putting up that "comedy" video, was like a drive by tagging. If he'd meant to have a serious discussion on inappropriate sexual behaviour; surely he could have started this thread first, without posting on the RIP thread?

Indeed. It's certainly a discussion worth having, but including a simple link to this thread would have been far more appropriate for the RIP thread.

 

[editor]

It went further then that. He adopted a neo-nazis persona that made public statements, eulogising Hitler and calling for a right-wing coup in Britain, during a period of racial tension.

He was also completely fucked out of his head on coke. Good analysis here:

Bowie's ill-advised and offensive flirtation with Nazism was partially the result of cocaine psychosis and extreme misjudgement, but it was also wilfully misunderstood and exaggerated by the press at the time. Riffing on the theme of links between totalitarianism and rock music that had arisen in a Kraftwerk interview in Creem magazine just months beforehand, this was the start of a period where he became spectacularly unstuck.

http://thequietus.com/articles/0359...about-adolf-hitler-and-new-nazi-rock-movement

 

[eoin_k]

Hitler took too much speed, so I guess we should give him an easy ride while we're at it.

 

[krtek a houby]

I did not realise that certain celebrities required 'safe spaces' from discussion of their rape of children.

It wasn't a discussion. It was a youtube video; deliberately posted to provoke, confusion, anger and grief. If he wanted a proper discussion; why not create this thread first?

 

[8den]

If he was a Republican politician's brother you would be singing a different tune.

.

Are you really comparing Bowie to a man who repeatedly raped and assaulted his daughter for nearly ten years?

 

[Plumdaff]

Hitler took too much speed, so I guess we should give him an easy ride while we're at it.

Can you remind me which album Bowie invaded Poland on?

 

[Idris2002]

Are you really comparing Bowie to a man who repeatedly raped and assaulted his daughter for nearly ten years?

Yes, he's saying they're comparable. Which is not the same thing as saying they're identical.

 

[J Ed]

It wasn't a discussion. It was a youtube video; deliberately posted to provoke, confusion, anger and grief. If he wanted a proper discussion; why not create this thread first?

It's Diana all over again

 

[LiamO]

Whats happened until innocent until proven guilty? I've no doubt that he may have slept with underage girls (and possibly boys too), but there is a legal framework in place where they can report it. Yet as far as I know there have never been any investigations into Bowies conduct, and bringing a bunch of unfounded allegations up in an RIP thread seems a bit of a cunts trick to be totally honest.

That said, its a conversation that does need to be have, especially in light of the ongoing probes, but there's a time and a place, and an RIP thread, is not it, especially as there's been no specific public allegation against him.

1. Some will people will argue that this is 'too soon' after his passing to be discussed. I would argue that the same courtesy would not be extended to others - such DJs and other, less artistically accomplished, celebs or indeed people who it is cool to not like.

2. Some people will cry 'where's your proof'? whilst ignoring the widely available anecdotal evidence from contemporaries. Many of these same people require no such level of proof to wade in and pontificate about those they don't like (Cliff anybody? Jim Davidson?)