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Pop and Rock Stars... and underage girls

These articles which confidently claim milestones occur at certain 'ages' are basically rubbish though - little media puffs which are, ultimately meaningless. It could certainly be argued that both men and women are 'growing up' (whatever that means) later because many of them are forced to remain in the parental home in a state of arrested development...but this is a specific situation, happening at a particular time. Has no real usefulness in determining maturity though.
 
I think all of that has a bearing on the discussion here. Rock/popstars had ready made markets of female fans, ready to pay the sexual price of access - along with a music industry that almost factored groupiedom into the structure of tours and gigs. However whilst there were no doubt teenage boys who hung around Suzi Quatro's stage door it would have been very unlikely that they would have been admitted, beyond the routine signing of autographs. In fact, there's a question, are there stories of female stars who have abused underage boys or in any way included them in their 'entourage'? I would guess there aren't, might be wrong though.

Sadly female stars at the time were also likely to becomes victims of abuse: The Runaways' Jackie Fuchs Speaks Out About Rape
 
The difference between boy and girl groupies? It doesn't really work with boys, does it? Well not hetero ones anyway.

The most basic one would be that boy groupies would have relatively very little to offer sexually to (older) female rock stars, would they? Don't think I've ever heard of a female rocker getting off on spotty nerds coming in their trousers on introduction. Never seen a girl pop star with younger male fans hanging off them.

Young girls - basically 'have her scrubbed and sent to my tent' - on the other hand are quite an ego boost/power trip for some and a whole new level of debauchery/power fantasy for those who have grown bored with the thousands of older girls offering themselves up.

Just a thought.
You might be right in emphasising the physical differences of adolescent boys and girls, to some extent. Yes, certainly an older female rock star might not get much of a 'performance' out of a 14 year old boy, but I don't think that's the issue. The reasons you don't see female popstars with younger males hanging off them are cultural, it would look 'odd', confusing, weird, simply out of place. But whilst I'm sure male stars are a bit more wary about public appearances with adolescent girls nowadays, the idea of groupiedom feeds of something in our culture. Something rather nasty.
 
Apparently he was accused of rape in 1987, but not charged.
The Complicated Sexual History of David Bowie

I have no memory of this being reported, but the story doesn't appear to have been repressed. FWIW I'm not introducing this as some killer piece of evidence, it's a good idea to believe women but that doesn't mean specific cases are true.
 
Apparently he was accused of rape in 1987, but not charged.
The Complicated Sexual History of David Bowie

I have no memory of this being reported, but the story doesn't appear to have been repressed. FWIW I'm not introducing this as some killer piece of evidence, it's a good idea to believe women but that doesn't mean specific cases are true.

I'm finding all this journo/blogger shit pretty hard to take tbh, I don't disagree with the whole "Despite all of these great achievements, his past is not spotless, and for the sake of every victim of sexual violence, it doesn’t deserve to be remembered as such." thing. I don't like heroes, and I don't care if they get taken down.

But, there are people still living who did far worse. Huge household names in fact with far more evidence and testimony to go on then Bowie - and they wouldnt dare be printing this shit if he wasn't dead. People who the commentariat have probably still got posters of on their fucking walls and are ignoring the reams of testimony against them. But they haven't got the fucking guts to go after them. Only when they are dead, when theres no chance of any comeback, when libels off the tables, and then the knives come out with a standard of evidence that wouldn't get past the first hurdle if someone was still alive. Bill Wyman is walking around untroubled, as are many others. Perhaps its only when they are dead too that the press will go omg he was a child abuser, who knew? Bunch of fucking cunts.
 
I'd have big questions about, say, a middle aged man with a 17 year old. Like, what is it he wants from a relationship that a woman who is his equal in experience does not provide? Because, of the many answers to that question, all of them spell unhealthy relationship to me.

Also other power imbalances, any students I teach will be over 18 but (quite rightly) I'm not allowed to have a sexual relationship with them.

ok.. except for. Isn't this something that has always gone on, since ever? But just keeping it to our time and place:

Teenaged girls tend to fancy men older than them, whether famous or not. Far as I know/ remember most teenaged girls' first crush will be on someone significantly older than themselves, whether a star or someone in their real world.

Meanwhile.. the word "teen" has held the number one or two spot for most popular search term on the internet's biggest porn site for .. since records began.
 
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During the RTS'/Rave period, there were plenty of middle aged guys(40 plus) with young girls, 17/18, etc, there was one guy here 42 at the time going out with a 17 yr old, her parents seemed to approve, and he was with her awhile, though when he split up with her, he said he "still occasionally shagged her" so no questions by then it was just physical. This relationship was never commented on by the RTS lot, the guy still acted like this across Europe during the big A/C protests, he wasn't alone, I recall plenty of predatory males in that culture.
 
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Umm ... if a victim does not agree to 'it', and it's penetrative, it's rape whether the victim is 14, 40 or 82

Of course it is. I was responding to the debate earlier in the thread about whether a situation where a 13-16 year old agrees to have penetrative sex is treated as rape in law. It isn't.
 
During the RTS'/Rave period, there were plenty of middle aged guys(40 plus) with young girls, 17/18, etc, there was one guy here 42 at the time going out with a 17 yr old, her parents seemed to approve, and he was with her awhile, though when he split up with her, he said he "still occasionally shagged her" so no questions by then it was just physical. This relationship was never commented on by the RTS lot, the guy still acted like this across Europe during the big A/C protests, he wasn't alone, I recall plenty of predatory males in that culture.

Do you mean in London Reclaim the Streets (RTS) in the '90s? If so I'd be interested to know who you mean. Someone in the group or someone in the wider scene - which was massive? I was around then and don't recall any such relationship, and saying there were 'plenty' of them is quite a claim. PM would be better I expect!
 
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During the RTS'/Rave period, there were plenty of middle aged guys(40 plus) with young girls, 17/18, etc, there was one guy here 42 at the time going out with a 17 yr old, her parents seemed to approve, and he was with her awhile, though when he split up with her, he said he "still occasionally shagged her" so no questions by then it was just physical. This relationship was never commented on by the RTS lot, the guy still acted like this across Europe during the big A/C protests, he wasn't alone, I recall plenty of predatory males in that culture.

So.. she liked him, enough to keep meeting him after they split up, even her parents apparently liked him, but you feel free to pass judgement on the thing and cast her as a victim of a 'predatory male' ?
Fair enough but.. I was one of those very young girls around the protest party scene at that time and my boyfriend whilst not quite in his 40s was still 'much too old for me': I now know that his friends had a serious go at him when we first got together, were very disapproving, but they calmed down after a couple of years as we all got to know eachother. :)
 
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Now the subject has been broached, I think it's well worth discussing how decrepit old lefty 'Gurus' incredibly seemed to punch well above their weight in the sexual stakes with young female activists.

I'm sure they would argue the girls were bowled over by their massive intellects - I always felt they were sordid old cunts preying on impressionable young women, myself.

I'm sure the truth falls somewhere between the two. I'd be intereseted in people sharing their experiences and their views (both then and now) of this phenomenon.
 
Now the subject has been broached, I think it's well worth discussing how decrepit old lefty 'Gurus' incredibly seemed to punch well above their weight in the sexual stakes with young female activists.

I'm sure they would argue the girls were bowled over by their massive intellects - I always felt they were sordid old cunts preying on impressionable young women, myself.

I'm sure the truth falls somewhere between the two. I'd be intereseted in people sharing their experiences and their views (both then and now) of this phenomenon.

:D Definitely somewhere in between those two.
 
I remember back about 1988, one Saturday night I got off with a gorgeous, young, red-headed, Workers Power activist. Apart from being physicaly stunning, she was a real nice, genuine person.

In the post-coital glow she was telling me of her sexual journey since meeting WP as a wide-eyed 16/17-year old schoolgirl. It did not make for particaularly pleasant listening and I toold her straight up that some of them were well taking the piss with their carry-on. They'd managed to present their indulging in ther lechery as her somehow shaking off the shackles of her capitalist indoctrination and reclaiming her sexuality for herself.

I'm sure shagging a beautiful woman was a sacrifice they had to steal themselves for. Dirty old bastards.
 
She was telling you about the other people she'd slept with just after having sex with you?

I can see how that might not be very pleasant to listen to. :D
 
If TopCat is about, maybe he could contribute his recollections. One mutual female acquaintance had some interesting tales to tell of her experiences with a couple of Trot groups before she got involved with Class War/ Red Action. But it's probably too long ago for me to remember much detail.

Don't get me wrong. I was always fairly led by my cock and was as lecherous as the next. The difference I suppose was I was a youngster myself and never in a position of power.
 
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