Political polling
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
Is it even necessary for Labour to have an absolutist Brexit/remain belief? Both positions are a means to an end, they shouldn’t be a thing in themselves. Labour could reasonably have a position about what they want to achieve and be happy to use either being in or out of the EU to achieve that aim.
Not saying that’s what’s happening, but I don’t think it’s inherently unreasonable
Not saying that’s what’s happening, but I don’t think it’s inherently unreasonable
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Not really disagreeing with you. In the absence of any bigger political project by Labour/Corbyn/Momentum, fully committing the party would be a tactical mistake. It's the absence of that wider project that's the problem...
... which takes mo to actually agreeing with kabbes above. If the starting point was a wider politics, whether it be anticapitalist or just a more robust social democracy, leave/remain should become a second order question. Can the left project best be achieved in or out, but the left project/working class politics is the starting point.
Brexit eats up everything and it's a bit difficult to see through the noise of it, but Labour has been rolling out new policy constantly - in the last week they've announced plans to spend a billion quid on buses & cancelling SATs that I can remember, but there's loads more. Maybe one of the reasons they're able to do this is because their position on brexit opens up some space for them to talk about other things. I think that's certainly what they're trying to do.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I really thought they were going to turn to the rich bloke and go "but this twat here"...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Which they did really.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's good line drawing politics that vid.
(Obv usual stuff applies blah blah)
(Obv usual stuff applies blah blah)
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Quite biblical really, the Parable of the Talents. Which, if I remember correctly, ends with the useless
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Not sure it would - London is in the south east region, they'd need to replicate these numbers right across the region to get a seat (labour got one on 14% last time)That would give the chuks a seat.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Nah, they are separate. It would give Gavin Esler a seat as the lead London candidate.
edit, assuming these lists are in the right order:
European Election Candidates: Change UK - LBC
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So they'll have done worse than the BNP - in their key/only area.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
London is actually a discrete European constituency returning 8 MEPs, quite separate from the South East's 10.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
The formula was mentioned upthread I think, but it's not fully proportional. It's something like a series of 'rounds' which allocate seats to the highest vote rather than re-allocating losing candidate's votes. Lab may get 2 or 3 seats, brexit and chuks 2? Libdems or Greens may well miss out on those figures.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
We can do it any way we like. This pathetic system was forced on us. Not voted on by any of us of course.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yep. In my shaky maths, I presume they have to do it like that because it's a party list system. Other PR systems require there to be individual votes for individual candidates.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yep, does not effect the most proportional outcome, but does work to give whole seat totals with no fractions etc. and favoured by the Eurocrats as it slightly privileges big parties & groupings...keeping out the riff raff.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Similar to those more straightforward PR systems in the past which had a minimum 'threshold', to stop 'extremists' getting in.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Yeah, regardless of what you think about Labour's politics, they've done a really good job on political broadcasts/adverts for a while now.
EDIT: On D'Hondt, this chart showing lowest % vote for seats might of some use. From twitter so apologies if not accurate.
HnH predicting 3 seats for ChUK BTW - London, SE and Eastern England
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binka
!!!!!!!!!
Confusing for them to miss UKIP off as the pluses and minuses don't add up
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Nah, the Australian senate election is STV where you can still vote for a party
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
My hurried dash to Wikipedia suggests they now have a system where you can vote by either party or candidate - and also that none of their systems work that well. Must work though*, not read it properly.
Australian Senate - Wikipedia
* I mean I must do some work, not that I endorse Aussie electoral systems.
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redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
TBF that's pretty accurate on all counts. But STV party vote is (approximately) proportional.
That’s a great ad.
I’m struggling to see what it’s got to do with local elections though. Last I checked, the district councillors had very little ability to reverse tax cuts for billionaires.
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