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Police planting catapults on anarchists? I don't believe it.

Indeed it could. Which is why this mysterious "intelligence" about someone using a catapult is so incriminating. I mean, what are the odds? Senior cop says on national radio he thinks catapults will be used, dodgy geezer seen planting catapults by at least 30 witnesses, plod turn up 20 minutes later and find them straight away.
So the sad twat calls the police during the week.

The sad twat (or a mate nearby) calls the police again as soon as he's dumped the bag.

What's so mysterious?

It *could* be police, it could be some BNP-type, it could be a random twat(s).

Maybe someone will recognise the person in question at some point.
 
An acquaintance got fitted up for the poll tax riots. They had film of him and everything. Unfortunately for them, he was under general anaesthetic in another city at the time. :D
The police have got a lot better at doing covert set-ups in the last 19 years, since 1990.
 
This just looks like an amateur 'plot' not a professional one.

youve got an excellent point, the only thing i would add is that the polis dont always do what would appear to be professional. im sure as i and others on the board have witnessed, they also do amateur.

i wouldnt rule em out just because it appears amateur.
 
The police shouldn't be ruled out. My comments are just in counter-point to people claiming it definitely *was* the police. It wouldn't be surprising if BNP-types wanted to get 'pay-back' for various things and they also have an agenda in wanting to make 'the left' look bad.

If the person who did this pops up somewhere in the future and is recognised it might give a clue as to who they are. Even something like the license plate on their motorbike might help 'out' them.
 
Anyone would know in advance that they wouldn't get any arrests out of doing it like that. You also have to wonder why there has been zero media coverage of this story, since the supposed 'police operation' went as planned - ie weapons planted (albeit in front of everyone) then 'discovered'.
They didn't want arrests - we already covered that ^^. Why would they go to the press with it when they were exposed by the onlookers as they were retrieving the catapults? They're stupid, but not that stupid. Really, they're not. :D

People knew the location beforehand so a 'professional' set-up could have put things in place beforehand.
Planting them before the anarchists arrive to set up their rally in the same area would be a bit risky. The foliage around Speaker's Corner isn't that luscious, and the poor stooge cop has got to be able to find the things without stretching his limited acting talents.

A proper set-up wouldn't wrap up weapons, would probably throw them into bushes to make it look like people trying to get rid of evidence,
They were trying to make it look like a weapons cache. Why would someone be getting rid of them when there was no incident where they had been used? Wouldn't be very convincing now, would it?


would include reports of police or businesses being attacked, would probably use convincing provocateurs who would at least throw a couple of bottles etc, would make sure at least some media were on hand at the right time - all things that have happened before.
Some Canadian provocateurs got caught out a couple of years ago, and the cops ended up having to admit it after persistent denials. It's a risky strategy. Especially when they only want to discredit the movement and skew the headlines. This way they get patted on the back for preventing "trouble",

Even sending just one policeman to find the bag doesn't sound like the usual MO, typically they'd steam in tooled up and mob-handed (which would inevitably provoke the desired reaction).
Why would they send them in mob-handed to "stumble upon" a bag of catapults. Were they self-aiming or something? :D

This just looks like an amateur 'plot' not a professional one.
On that, we can agree. :cool:
 
@ymu

You have no evidence that it was the police. I have no evidence that it was a lone-bnp-nutter.

I am putting forward a different view-point based on what I know about the Met police MO for covert set-ups etc over the years.

To me this doesn't look like a police set-up, it looks like a lone-bnp-type-nutter trying to do a set-up, and the police following it up but not taking any further action.

I am willing to keep an open mind about it. Are you?
 
@ _float_

If you can make some points that aren't ludicrous, you might convince me that you have an open mind. I don't. I'm happy with 30 witnesses, a great deal of circumstantial evidence and a lot of form.

You have to make up a right-wing nutter who not only wanted to discredit the demo independently of the police, they had the foresight to ring them up in advance with the "intelligence". And then the senior copper who was on R4 decided that this random phone call was worth mentioning on air. And then, despite successfully foiling this dastardly plot, there is no media reporting of it, even though it was important enough to scare people with on national radio's flagship news programme a few days earlier.

I don't have an open mind on this one because I don't have an empty mind. Just call me Occam. ;)
 
I've searched for blogs etc. mentioning catapults at speakers corner but found nothing. Somebody at Indymedia has posted a question about it but nobody's answered. I've asked for evidence on Ian Bone's blog - no response.

If the man in black wasn't a policeman then it's a non-story, as interesting as a playground squabble.

If anyone has evidence he was a policeman it's a fantastic story which we would have seen in today's papers. But it's not going to happen, is it? :(
 
The police have got a lot better at doing covert set-ups in the last 19 years, since 1990.
You mean like when they retrospectively tried to set up Jean Charles de Menezes as someone who was wearing a suspiciously heavy jacket that might have been covering explosives, and who ran and jumped over security barriers, and who failed to stop when they announced themselves to be police and warned him they'd fire? You mean that kind of better?
 
Yes but who has a camera these days? :D

Well quite. I lean towards believing the story, but I'd really like to see it made watertight by some nice clear photos.

Of course, this is probably an excellent example to demonstrate why it's now illegal to photograph policemen.
 
Indeed it could. Which is why this mysterious "intelligence" about someone using a catapult is so incriminating. I mean, what are the odds? Senior cop says on national radio he thinks catapults will be used, dodgy geezer seen planting catapults by at least 30 witnesses, plod turn up 20 minutes later and find them straight away.

i wonder if it had anything to do with this tongue in cheek post following on from anarchists have a tank:
http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/anarchists-have-tank/
Still, so long as they havnt got wind of the catapult - best to keep that one under wraps.
 
If you can make some points that aren't ludicrous, you might convince me that you have an open mind. I don't. I'm happy with 30 witnesses, a great deal of circumstantial evidence and a lot of form.
I am using all the same witnesses, circumstantial evidence and form as you. All of this leads me to a different conclusion (or theory) than yours.

Phoning the police beforehand isn't difficult in the slightest and doesn't contradict my theory. The senior copper mentioning an allegation doesn't contradict my theory. The fact there was no police statement or media reporting of it supports my theory, not yours.

In fact you haven't pointed to anything that contradicts my theory. I do however admit that there isn't any hard evidence that contradicts your 'police did it' theory either - hence me having an open mind and you not having an open mind and resorting to insulting me instead.

Whoever dumped the stuff there was a cunt. I am not trying to defend them. I am simply pointing out that there is more than one set of cunts around who may be motivated to something like this. I bet plenty of BNP sympathisers swore they'd get "revenge" after their mailing-list fiasco last year for example. That the way it was done was half-baked. That the police regularly do better set-ups than that: for example why have someone so blaently walk in and walk out again? Why not have someone there from the start with a rucksack and a coat over it, who wanders off after a while, or even stays around, chatting into a mobile phone hands-free? Then if anyone (except for the police) goes over and starts opening it they tell them to piss off. Why not start a ruck? Why not use it as an excuse to immediately search everyone there?

Anyway, I have offered an alternative theory. It is up to people to read yours, read mine and see which one they find the most likely. Maybe more evidence and witnesses will sway things one way or another? I am keeping an open mind and will read what the people who were there have to say about it over the next few days.
 
You mean like when they retrospectively tried to set up Jean Charles de Menezes as someone who was wearing a suspiciously heavy jacket that might have been covering explosives, and who ran and jumped over security barriers, and who failed to stop when they announced themselves to be police and warned him they'd fire? You mean that kind of better?
No I'm not thinking about that example. Is that the best set-up you can think of?

There have been lots of examples where the police have more-or-less engineered confrontations at demos over the years.

There are plenty of examples of the police arresting people on trumped-up charges or using the slightest pretext for kettling, charging, stopping, searching and generally screwing people around.
 
Of course, this is probably an excellent example to demonstrate why it's now illegal to photograph policemen.
I think Labour's legislative incontinence demonstrates that just as well.

While the law doesn't actually ban photographing police, it could be read that way: until it's repealed, hopefully the courts will read mens rea into it as they have similar legislation.
 
Here's what Greg H has to say - inlc

As the footage shows I was stood basically in front of the step ladder making sure I could get a good angle on every speaker, the following events I am about to describe I did not get on camera as my focus was to ensure filming the speakers as opposed to documenting the activities of those around me. About 20minutes (During parts 4/5) into the rally a man dressed all in black swooped up to the step ladder, keeping very low to the ground, tipped the contents of his bag out and exited in an incredible speed. Left on the floor was roughly six small black packages. This suspicious behaviour instantly caught the attention of myself and others around me. I lightly stepped on one of the packages, could feel it was hard and gently flicked it to someone stood about a metre away. All the time still filming the speaker! The person next to me used his foot to open the package, aware not to put fingerprints on it, and a catapult was revealed. Everyone was very conscious that these weapons had no place at a public rally and were kicked by various people, though not myself, under the metal fence that can be seen in the back of all my footage into a fenced off mounded area of waste ground and out of harms way. One speaker, a ginger gentleman sporting a special brew can, warns the crowd intially of the catapult saga as he had an arguement with a cameraman who was going to keep one! Thankfully they were convinced to throw it also under the fence.

More

Trying to find footage of the speaker who made ref to the events at the time
 
Stop and Search docket:

Stop%26Search.gif
 
Here's what Greg H has to say - inlc

More

Trying to find footage of the speaker who made ref to the events at the time
Lordy. I wish that website learnt the wonder of paragraphs.

Skim reading through that block of text, it seems that there really is nothing linking the catapults to the police, yes?
 
Let's establish that it happened first - something that many people were doubting yesterday (there's audio and video footage making refs to catapults now availible from various resources).
 
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