Police planting catapults on anarchists? I don't believe it.

[nick h.]

Rescued this entertaining text from the bin. It's a great story - if only I could believe it wasn't an urban myth. Surprisingly there are no photos, despite the whole thing being witnessed by "many independent photographers":

"During the anarchist rally at Speakers Corner yesterday a man in black appeared suddenly and emptied a bin bag behind the stepladder and motored off quick.

The bin bag contents seemed to be about seven or eight small packages tightly wrapped in bin bags. Someone took a look at one and revealed a catapault. They were quickly kicked away under some fencing constructed for maintenance works.

About 20 minutes later from some distance away a copper climbed over the fencing and ‘found’ the catapaults. Alert to what was happening film maker Greg Hall climbed the stepladder and warned of the potential fit up. Needle to say he ws pulled by the cops on leaving the Park. Luckily many independent photographers had witnessed the whole thing and Greg was released after being searched.

This was about as clumsy a stitch up as you could wish for. What more ‘finds’ await us in the week ahead?"

http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2009/03...ch-up-attempt/

 

[bluestreak]

Twas ever thus. There will always be stitch ups, and claims of stitch ups. When both sides have everything to gain from allegations of unfair play, who can you believe. Personally I veer towards Ian Bone, seeing as I have experienced directly and indirectly numerous occasions of outright lies from cops, but that's just me. Others wouldn't believe the cops did anything wrong if they saw it with their own two eyes.

 

[DotCommunist]

Given that stitch ups and canteen-cooked stories happen all the time, I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

Police issue photofit

Daily Fail in moral outrage against perverse 'Beano' readership..

 

[nick h.]

This is how conspiracy theories get started - the "I wouldn't put it past them" argument. But this story just looks daft. Why plant incriminating evidence wrapped in plastic bags? If it doesn't have anarchists' fingerprints on it, what's the point? Where are the accounts of the many witnesses to this event? Where are the photos? I would SO love to be proved wrong on this - just show me a smidgen of evidence.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Rescued this entertaining text from the bin. It's a great story - if only I could believe it wasn't an urban myth. Surprisingly there are no photos, despite the whole thing being witnessed by "many independent photographers":

Where are the accounts of the many witnesses to this event? Where are the photos?

Exactly what effort have you personally put into finding out whether this happened or not?

Have you contacted Ian, or Greg? Have you asked around people who were at the anarchist rally? Have you waded through blogs and websites for reference to the mysterious parcels?

At the moment it appears that you are basing your opinion entirely on a single blog entry. Your opinion - that this seems to be 'an urban myth' - is no more credible than that of those who say 'I can well believe it'.

We can all speculate on the whys and wherefores and I-wouldn't-trust-Bones and ACABs till the cows come home.

That a slew of evidence - photographic, corroborating witnesses etc - does not accompany the brief blog post made by Ian neither proves that it happened nor disproves it.

 

[butchersapron]

Every single person i talked to after the Speakers Corner thing (about 20-30 people i would guess) witnessed this.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

If they are going to present it to the press though why do they need to (badly) plant it? Why not go this is what we found and then present a selection of weapons?

 

[tangentlama]

It could have been a sad media hack* planting catapults, and then informing the police - an easy manufacturing of the story they wanted to see in the run-up to this week's G20 demonstrations.




*as opposed to a glad media hack, who write balanced stories and have a more nuanced understandering the public mood

 

[Fullyplumped]

Rescued this entertaining text from the bin. It's a great story - if only I could believe it wasn't an urban myth. Surprisingly there are no photos, despite the whole thing being witnessed by "many independent photographers":

http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2009/03...ch-up-attempt/

If I was going to create a myth about police trying to play dirty by planting evidence, this is exactly where I'd do it and this is exactly how I'd go about it.

I am casting no aspersions against Mr Bone. But cooey bonio and all that.

 

[_float_]

...a man in black appeared suddenly and emptied a bin bag behind the stepladder and motored off quick...

Anyone got more details?

Doing this in full view of everyone sounds a bit amateurish.

 

[TopCat]

I saw exactly what happened and it is as described.

 

[DotCommunist]

Anyone got more details?

Doing this in full view of everyone sounds a bit amateurish.

Fit ups that have been exposed are usually head-shakingly poor. They rely on no witnesses and the courts tendency to believe the coppers.

 

[ymu]

This is how conspiracy theories get started - the "I wouldn't put it past them" argument. But this story just looks daft.

A. Why plant incriminating evidence wrapped in plastic bags?

B. If it doesn't have anarchists' fingerprints on it, what's the point?

C. Where are the accounts of the many witnesses to this event?

D. Where are the photos?

I would SO love to be proved wrong on this - just show me a smidgen of evidence.

A. Because dumping a load of catapults might be a bit more obvious than dropping a bag full of them and because it'll look like more like a weapons stash, which is handy when you can't easily plant them on individuals.

B. Because they're not trying to fit up an identified group of anarchists, they are trying to discredit a movement, put more "mainstream" folk off and create dissent within the movement by exacerbating existing black bloc/fluffy tensions.

C. Give them a chance. BA's spoken to a fair few and he's no liar. No doubt the accounts will appear.

D. Because "independent photographers" refers to a bunch of people standing around with cameras. It'll take a while to get hold of their photos, if anyone thought to ask for their contact details. Again, give them a chance. Of course, we don't know if anyone got an unambiguous shot of the motorcycle rider at the very beginning before anyone knew anything was up ... no doubt photos of the rest of the incident will be interpreted to suit the viewers' prejudices.

 

[Azrael]

Luckily many independent photographers had witnessed the whole thing and Greg was released after being searched.

Where's the link to their photos, and a report on an accredited news site? BBC, Guardian, something like that.

The original link's gone dead BTW.

 

[butchersapron]

Link

which also contains a claim that:

This explains a lot. The London top cop was on Radio 4’s Today earlier this week warning that they needed thousands of extra police at the marches because of “intelligence recieved” that “someone with a catapult” would strike at the protests.

Did anyone hear this?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Link

 

[ymu]

From the comments ..

This explains a lot. The London top cop was on Radio 4’s Today earlier this week warning that they needed thousands of extra police at the marches because of “intelligence recieved” that “someone with a catapult” would strike at the protests.

If we can track down the Today programme in question, it's pretty much case closed. How stupid are they?

 

[Azrael]

Sounds very dodgy if it's true. Has anyone approach the BBC or a newspaper with this? Have the relevant complaints been made to the police? I'm sure on of the cops on here would supply the procedure.

 

[e19896]

I saw exactly what happened and it is as described.

This comes from some well trusted people and i can to be frank beleave and understand why the scum would do this well done to all for not becomeing to this, shows how much we are towords a police state, when they need to act like this to discredit a group of anarchist, and all to often i disagre with them, but from what ive read by e mail and the blog, this is not made up propaganda..

Anarchist One Police Nill, now one is looking forword to next weeks events this could get intresting..

 

[Garcia Lorca]

From the comments ..





If we can track down the Today programme in question, it's pretty much case closed. How stupid are they?

surely the cops wouldnt be so fcking stupid............ course they would. anyone got the day of that prog, you can prob get it online to listen again.

they are gonna be a tense lot on wed. good luck to everyone who is there.

 

[ymu]

A lot of giant cardboard catapults would be in order on Wednesday. Perhaps individually decorated.

 

[boskysquelch]

I found my hand in Johnny Binden's crotch once .... or twice. ...

http://www.iplayerconverter.co.uk/r/4/aod/default.aspx

Cntrl + F Today

next, next, next , next etc etc...you'll get there.

I'd like to know too.

 

[_float_]

It could have been anyone ranging from far-right, random nutter, sectarian-with-a-grudge, tabloid-type or whatever. Why would the police do it in such a crappy, obvious and cack-handed way, given that they routinely do *far* more sophisticated set-ups than this? They didn't even get any arrests or media coverage out of it ffs!

 

[Raw SslaC]

This comes from some well trusted people and i can to be frank beleave and understand why the scum would do this well done to all for not becomeing to this, shows how much we are towords a police state, when they need to act like this to discredit a group of anarchist, and all to often i disagre with them, but from what ive read by e mail and the blog, this is not made up propaganda..

Anarchist One Police Nill, now one is looking forword to next weeks events this could get intresting..

The person who dumped the bag full of catapults had a copy of the guardian in his pocket, and was carrying a waitrose shopping bag - the suspicions is that it was The Middle Class wot done it again.

 

[Geri]

They didn't even get any arrests or media coverage out of it ffs!

They wouldn't have known that in advance, so that's irrelevant.

 

[cesare]

The person who dumped the bag full of catapults had a copy of the guardian in his pocket, and was carrying a waitrose shopping bag - the suspicions is that it was The Middle Class wot done it again.

 

[e19896]

The person who dumped the bag full of catapults had a copy of the guardian in his pocket, and was carrying a waitrose shopping bag - the suspicions is that it was The Middle Class wot done it again.

What the Middle Class fiting themselevs up, well just gose to show why you can not trust them:

 

[ymu]

It could have been anyone ranging from far-right, random nutter, sectarian-with-a-grudge, tabloid-type or whatever.

Indeed it could. Which is why this mysterious "intelligence" about someone using a catapult is so incriminating. I mean, what are the odds? Senior cop says on national radio he thinks catapults will be used, dodgy geezer seen planting catapults by at least 30 witnesses, plod turn up 20 minutes later and find them straight away.

Why would the police do it in such a crappy, obvious and cack-handed way, given that they routinely do *far* more sophisticated set-ups than this? They didn't even get any arrests or media coverage out of it ffs!

Are you kidding?

An acquaintance got fitted up for the poll tax riots. They had film of him and everything. Unfortunately for them, he was under general anaesthetic in another city at the time.

 

[_float_]

They wouldn't have known that in advance, so that's irrelevant.

Anyone would know in advance that they wouldn't get any arrests out of doing it like that. You also have to wonder why there has been zero media coverage of this story, since the supposed 'police operation' went as planned - ie weapons planted (albeit in front of everyone) then 'discovered'.

This could all be the work of one sad twat with a motobike, a mobile phone and a chip on their shoulder about protestors or 'the far left' - hence it being so shit and achieving no arrests or media coverage.

People knew the location beforehand so a 'professional' set-up could have put things in place beforehand. A proper set-up wouldn't wrap up weapons, would probably throw them into bushes to make it look like people trying to get rid of evidence, would include reports of police or businesses being attacked, would probably use convincing provocateurs who would at least throw a couple of bottles etc, would make sure at least some media were on hand at the right time - all things that have happened before. Even sending just one policeman to find the bag doesn't sound like the usual MO, typically they'd steam in tooled up and mob-handed (which would inevitably provoke the desired reaction).

This just looks like an amateur 'plot' not a professional one.