Pensioner arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death.

[Smokeandsteam]

its going to take the police at least 24 hours to clear this even if it is burglar gets stabbed.

Fair enough but why can’t the 78 year old go home while the dibble complete their ‘enquiries’ (and maybe even find the other burglar while they are at it). It’s not like he’s going to abscond is it

 

[Spymaster]

Fair enough but why can’t the 78 year old go home while the dibble complete their ‘enquiries’ (and maybe even find the other burglar while they are at it).

Because he might be a murderer.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Because he might be a murderer.

And if he is they can charge him once they have completed their ‘investigation’. My point is a 78 year old bloke with a wife with dementia isn’t going on the run.

 

[joustmaster]

Theres not enough talk about the picture the news are using.
Double fisting two pints of guinness.
Strong.

 

[Spymaster]

And if he is they can charge him once they have completed their ‘investigation’. My point is a 78 year old bloke with a wife with dementia isn’t going on the run.

“He might be a violent killer, sarge, but he’s 78 so I’ve let him back into the community whilst we find out. We can always pick him up later if he’s a proper wrongun”.

What if he kills someone else?

 

[Gromit]

Most likely? Is that how you want a justice system to work? I think it is unreasonable to presume anything. Haven't you watched " Murder She Wrote"

Urban is a justice system now?

All I'm doing is establishing on what grounds we are holding internet debate opinions.

If a justice system or even football system was run on those principles it would of course be fucked. But we aren't burdened with that responsibility yet.

If you want to wait until ALL the facts are available before you tender an opinion then off you fuck, see you back here in a couple of months.

 

[cupid_stunt]

This link has popped-up elsewhere, a High Court ruling from 2 yeas ago, which is worth reading.

Householders can use a disproportionate level of force against an intruder in their homes if they reasonably believe it is necessary, the high court has ruled.
---
While the judges stressed that their decision did not give people “carte blanche” to use any degree of force to protect themselves, they said that force was not necessarily unreasonable and unlawful “simply because it is disproportionate – unless it is grossly disproportionate”.

Householders can use 'disproportionate' level of force against intruders

 

[Smokeandsteam]

What if he kills someone else?

Given his MO that can be discounted unless someone else breaks into his house with a screwdriver.

 

[Spymaster]

Given his MO that can be discounted unless someone else breaks into his house with a screwdriver.

Without wishing to sound too much like MrSki , how do you know that’s his MO? Can you be 100% certain that he didn’t entice the dead bloke around and stab him for another reason? At the moment it’s his word against a dead chap’s.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Without wishing to sound too much like MrSki , how do you know that’s his MO? Can you be 100% certain that he didn’t entice the dead bloke around and stab him for another reason? At the moment it’s his word against a dead chap’s.

I wonder why he chose to entice him at 3am and why they all weren’t tucked up in bed.
Or why his mate scarpered instead of waiting to give his side of the tale to the cops.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I wonder why he chose to entice him at 3am and why they all weren’t tucked up in bed.
Or why his mate scarpered instead of waiting to give his side of the tale to the cops.

It was actually around mid-night, the guy died later, at around 3am.

At 00:45hrs on Wednesday, 4 April, police were called by a homeowner to reports of a burglary in progress at an address in South Park Crescent, Hither Green SE6, and a man injured.

Investigation launched after man dies following suspected burglary

 

[Spymaster]

I wonder why he chose to entice him at 3am and why they all weren’t tucked up in bed.
Or why his mate scarpered instead of waiting to give his side of the tale to the cops.

The most likely explanation is that he killed a burglar but if the cops can't be absolutely sure of that how can they possibly release him? The guy has just stabbed someone to death. They need to be convinced that he's not a stabby scrote himself who's lost the pllot and will go home and stab his wife or someone else. Or perhaps there's something else. Maybe the dead guy was stabbed 30 times, maybe something else ...

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The most likely explanation is that he killed a burglar but if the cops can't be absolutely sure of that how can they possibly release him? The guy has just stabbed someone to death. They need to be convinced that he's not a stabby scrote himself who's lost the pllot and will go home and stab his wife or someone else. Or perhaps there's something else. Maybe the dead guy was stabbed 30 times, maybe something else ...

Yes they must be cautious. Like that time I got held overnight and had my DNA swabbed for being a bit tipsy.

 

[existentialist]

I wonder why he chose to entice him at 3am and why they all weren’t tucked up in bed.
Or why his mate scarpered instead of waiting to give his side of the tale to the cops.

The thing is, we can wonder all we like. But a criminal investigation cannot be based on "wondering". They have to do things in a certain way, and avoid any of the kind of assumptions we're completely at liberty to make.

This, I think, is a good example of why the tendency of (particularly) the press to regard someone under investigation as almost tried, convicted and hanged, even if they can't actually say that, is a problem. It's completely right that someone who has killed (or just seriously injured) someone else needs to be the subject of an investigation to determine how that came about. One hopes that the police are able to do these things with a degree of sensitivity, but at the same time it really does have to be done.

It's the same with sudden deaths due to other causes (including suicide). Those close to the deceased often find the police investigation, short as it often is, into the death hugely traumatic and upsetting, but there really isn't any way around it - if someone dies suddenly and unexpectedly, it's not for the police to say "oh, look, it must be suicide/heart attack/etc, let's not bother", because people do get murdered and have it made to look like suicide, so to do that would be to make it that much easier to kill someone just by making it look like something else. Personally, I'd not be all that happy with that idea.

 

[Spymaster]

Yes they must be cautious. Like that time I got held overnight and had my DNA swabbed for being a bit tipsy.

Yep. Just like that.

 

[seeformiles]

I'm all about the gun kata to get rid of burglars. You can also use it to get the dog to come in when you want to lock the back door and the cows out there digging again:

Ooo - really want to see this now!

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The thing is, we can wonder all we like. But a criminal investigation cannot be based on "wondering". They have to do things in a certain way, and avoid any of the kind of assumptions we're completely at liberty to make.

This, I think, is a good example of why the tendency of (particularly) the press to regard someone under investigation as almost tried, convicted and hanged, even if they can't actually say that, is a problem. It's completely right that someone who has killed (or just seriously injured) someone else needs to be the subject of an investigation to determine how that came about. One hopes that the police are able to do these things with a degree of sensitivity, but at the same time it really does have to be done.

It's the same with sudden deaths due to other causes (including suicide). Those close to the deceased often find the police investigation, short as it often is, into the death hugely traumatic and upsetting, but there really isn't any way around it - if someone dies suddenly and unexpectedly, it's not for the police to say "oh, look, it must be suicide/heart attack/etc, let's not bother", because people do get murdered and have it made to look like suicide, so to do that would be to make it that much easier to kill someone just by making it look like something else. Personally, I'd not be all that happy with that idea.

Is anyone saying it shouldn’t be investigated? What a bizarre strawman.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes they must be cautious. Like that time I got held overnight and had my DNA swabbed for being a bit tipsy.

drunk and disorderly or drunk and incapable?

 

[cupid_stunt]

A few years old, but this article covers 3 cases of burglars being killed by householders in Manchester, in each case they were arrested, but the CPS decided they wouldn't face charges. So, what is happening is the norm.

In the clear: Bramhall homeowner who stabbed intruder to death acted in 'reasonable self defence'

 

[Spymaster]

Is anyone saying it shouldn’t be investigated? What a bizarre strawman.

He was responding to your post which seemed supportive of another which said he should be released.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

drunk and disorderly or drunk and incapable?

‘Disorderly’. Of course it’s entirely at their discretion what that means.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

He was responding to your post which seemed supportive of another which said he should be released.

Not holding someone overnight doesn’t mean it can’t be investigated.

 

[Spymaster]

A few years old, but this article covers 3 cases of burglars being killed by householders in Manchester, in each case they were arrested, but the CPS decided they wouldn't face charges. So, what is happening is the norm.

In the clear: Bramhall homeowner who stabbed intruder to death acted in 'reasonable self defence'

Of course you're going to be arrested if you kill someone!

Does anybody really think that the plod walk in, take a statement, take the body away and let you to get back to sleep?

 

[Spymaster]

Not holding someone overnight doesn’t mean it can’t be investigated.

Eh?

 

[Teaboy]

When seconds count the police are just minutes away.

Anybody who comes in my house uninvited is getting 'five rounds rapid' and I'll take my chance in court.

The full Pistorius? Lets hope it's not next door's kid climbing through an open window to get his ball back.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Eh?

Existentialist made out I was saying it shouldn’t be investigated. When I pointed out nobody had said that you pointed to a position (of him being released) equating to that. It doesn’t.

 

[Pickman's model]

The full Pistorius? Lets hope it's not next door's kid climbing through an open window to get his ball back.

not pistorius, boxing

followed by a points decision

 

[Teaboy]

A 78 year old getting the better of someone under 40 is quite something in itself. I don't know, assuming no charges are brought, I wonder how safe the guy will now feel in his own home? Retribution being what it is.

 

[Pickman's model]

Of course you're going to be arrested if you kill someone!

how many cops were arrested for killing mark saunders or smiley culture?

 

[Pickman's model]

A 78 year old getting the better of someone under 40 is quite something in itself. I don't know, assuming no charges are brought, I wonder how safe the guy will now feel in his own home? Retribution being what it is.

pretty safe now people will think twice about taking him on