What are the chances of something like Podemos or Syriza coming out of the present debacle? Could you get behind something like that? I thought I'd never dump the PSOE but I did.
Pasokification - Wikipedia
Pasokification - Wikipedia
Pasokification in the UK
- Thread starter JuanTwoThree
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redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
What do you mean by Pasokification? Has not Syriza largely taken the place of the PSOE, one left party displacing a centre left party only to then become the equivalent of the centre left party it displaced.
It should really be called Depasokification, I suppose.
You're mixing up your countries and your thrusting new left parties that don't live up to their initial promise.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
0
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Sorry yes, I meant Pasok. But the substantive point stands, Pasok have been displaced by Syzria but a centre-left party remains. Likewise in Scotland the SLP has died but the SNP has taken its traditonal place.
ska invita
back on the other side
That said look at what Farage has achieved, his side pressure parties have had an enormous impact despite FPTP. Splitting the vote is the point.
Left Unity was started explicitly as "A Ukip Of The Left"...First two years went into creating good working horizontal/democratic structures (very commendable IMO), then it cant have been much more than a year or so after that that Corbyn become leader, making LU redundant (though the chances of it ever becoming effective were very slim).
In a way Pasofikation has happened within the Labour party no? The name stayed the same but the guard withered and changed hands. Momentum in the mix of it too
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It literally means the death of a party as an electoral vehicle and the severing of its links to its traditional bases allied with new parties filling the vacuum this produces. This has not happened. There is a standing party with a left-wing program pulling votes most European socialist parities would murder for in the most difficult of conditions.
There certainly used to be the received wisdom that both Labour and Conservative were such broad alliances, starting well on the left across to the middle, then from a very similar middle right across to Monday Clubbers and the like.
This was when people could talk about 'a broad church' or a 'big tent' and at the same time about the dangers of entryism, though not so much on the right, I always thought.
Apparently there was so much leeway in these two 'broad churches' that there was never any need for a lefter left party or a righter right, in other words for the letter soup of European politics.
The UK way does seem to be to overhaul the existing two 'brands' rather than start again with a new organisation. It's probably the same end result. All other initiatives seem to fail to prosper.
And Liberals seem to soak up the malcontents at the softer end of each spectrum without getting any bigger. Like a bath sponge.
This was when people could talk about 'a broad church' or a 'big tent' and at the same time about the dangers of entryism, though not so much on the right, I always thought.
Apparently there was so much leeway in these two 'broad churches' that there was never any need for a lefter left party or a righter right, in other words for the letter soup of European politics.
The UK way does seem to be to overhaul the existing two 'brands' rather than start again with a new organisation. It's probably the same end result. All other initiatives seem to fail to prosper.
And Liberals seem to soak up the malcontents at the softer end of each spectrum without getting any bigger. Like a bath sponge.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Maybe just me, but I don't think this thread got the traction it deserved.
Bump?
As a follow up to butchersapron concluding comment above, someone has graphed the British Electoral Study data for the 2019 GE (Labour's "worst since 1935") to explore the notion of whether or not the LP's links to its traditional base had been severed.
Take away observation; yes if you include the retired, no if you look at the working poor:
Although, whether or not Starmer's ditching of the Corbyn policy platform means they are capable of holding that support is debatable.
Didn't realise at first that this was a bumped thread ( 
), but I'm actually glad that brogdale did bump it.
Just IMO here : I tend to agree with nogojones that the electoral system will thwart a new leftie party's hopes of taking off and replacing Labour.
Would Labour ever comprehensively split top to bottom? As opposed to disaffected members leaving/becoming inactive/joining a small left party/active through campaigns and unions instead of within the LP? Numbers surely limited(ish), of those people??
At the moment I have my doubts (for now) of a big UK Pasok event, partly because of the "fear of being the people called 'Splitter!' " factor within Labour.
), but I'm actually glad that brogdale did bump it.Just IMO here : I tend to agree with nogojones that the electoral system will thwart a new leftie party's hopes of taking off and replacing Labour.
Would Labour ever comprehensively split top to bottom? As opposed to disaffected members leaving/becoming inactive/joining a small left party/active through campaigns and unions instead of within the LP? Numbers surely limited(ish), of those people??
At the moment I have my doubts (for now) of a big UK Pasok event, partly because of the "fear of being the people called 'Splitter!' " factor within Labour.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Fair point; haven't got the time myself to dig out the data & graph...but perhaps someone might...or find someone else's work?
PR1Berske
Alligator in chains by the park gates.
We've been here before and FPTP is always the reason why it never works (but I do take the point about UKIP changing the landscape without gaining seats...)
It was Respect. It was Socialist Alliance. It was (is?) TUSC. They have to stick the course. Electoral politics can be harsh and hard and expensive and sometimes I think the attention span of the left (broadly defined) is far shorter than the right
It was Respect. It was Socialist Alliance. It was (is?) TUSC. They have to stick the course. Electoral politics can be harsh and hard and expensive and sometimes I think the attention span of the left (broadly defined) is far shorter than the right
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