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Paramilitary Style Group Protests In Luton

dylans said:
Again, what is provocative about an anti war march protesting a patriotic homecoming parade of troops returning from Iraq?

it wasn't an anti war march it was a dozen protesters linked to an organization who has such nice members they say stuff like this

condemn the killing of innocent people." Choudary replied,

At the end of the day, when we say "innocent people" we mean "Muslims". As far as non-Muslims are concerned, they have not accepted Islam. As far as we are concerned, that is a crime against God.[33]

he's not anti war just anti white boys joining in the fun:rolleyes:

bit like the BNP protesting against the war as Aryan blood shouldn't be spilt sorting out Afghanistan.:(
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dylans said:
And you my friend, start off by trying to appease racism and end up blaming its victims.
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no i blame fascists where ever i see them .. in the UK community, the BNP .. in the muslim community, al Muh etc and in the left wing .. people like you and your domineering parties
 
phildwyer said:
I'm sorry, but that is simply not true. Streathemite attempts a feeble defence of the Kuwaiti state here:



As you see, he burbles on about "Kuwaitis," apparently under the impression that they form a distinct politico-ethnic grouping. He conclusively demonstrates his ignorance of history and, more importantly, his misunderstanding of imperialism. It would be absurd to expect such a person to have anything useful to say about the intricacies of neo-imperialism today.

And to his credit, Streathamite appears to have acknowledged his own obsolescence by retiring hurt from this debate.
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missed that .. apologies .. but you know what .. i could not give a flying fuck .. all your people obsesses with your anti imperialism are fiddling while rome burns .. and i wish it would be you who gets hurt first .. but it will not be .. it will be the very people you claim to seek to protect
 
durruti02 said:
missed that .. apologies .. but you know what .. i could not give a flying fuck .. all your people obsesses with your anti imperialism are fiddling while rome burns .. and i wish it would be you who gets hurt first .. but it will not be .. it will be the very people you claim to seek to protect
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What's the alternative to anti-imperialism? Pro-imperialism?
 
anti-imperialism is a bit like anti the slave trade there aren't really any enslaved colony's anymore:hmm:
time to come up with a new name.
bit like blathering on about what Russians thought in 1917 regardless of there good ideas did not turn out to well
 
likesfish said:
anti-imperialism is a bit like anti the slave trade there aren't really any enslaved colony's anymore:hmm:
time to come up with a new name.
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"Neo-imperialism" is the generally accepted term (on the Left) for the current relation between the West and the developing world. Sounds about right to me.
 
durruti02 said:
no i blame fascists where ever i see them .. in the UK community, the BNP .. in the muslim community,
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they're not fascist on any level, they are authoritarian bigots but thats where the similarity with fascism ends and constantly calling them fascist is no different to the trots wibbling on about the bnp being a nazi party, its inaccurate and unhelpful

(not disagreeing with the general thrust of what youyr saying btw)

on a more positive note, in this mornings papers

MUSLIMS DRIVE THEIR OWN NUTS OFF STREET
 
dylans said:
Streathamite. The silence is deafening. Are you going to stop hiding behind your friends skirts and answer the fucking question?
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You posted that at 7.26 on a saturday morning!
You come across as somebody with some preety deep rooted psychological problems dylans.
I bet you know really that you made a preety silly post to start all this off. While some people will be attacking the muslim extremists cos they dont like Black or Muslim people to try and pretend that people like Streathamite or Durruti fall into that category is worse than stupid.

The demonstators should not be supported at all. They would laugh at somebody like you have zero respect for you. Your idea of being anti imperialist is laughable.
 
there appears to be a March for England planned in Tavistock Square on July 5th

and believe it or not their website links to urban 75 :eek::eek:

http://s15.zetaboards. (snapped) com/March_For_England/pages/links/

something youre not telling us editor :hmm::D
 
smokedout said:
they're not fascist on any level, they are authoritarian bigots but thats where the similarity with fascism ends and constantly calling them fascist is no different to the trots wibbling on about the bnp being a nazi party, its inaccurate and unhelpful

(not disagreeing with the general thrust of what youyr saying btw)

on a more positive note, in this mornings papers

MUSLIMS DRIVE THEIR OWN NUTS OFF STREET
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the star dude?

the fooking star?

they even put news in inverted comma's as 'NEWS' like they are doing the paper equiverlent of saying alledgely.

All of this is very very specific and teratorial to luton and in many ways resonates significantly around befordshire. The BNP has always been strong in the area because at one point luton was the largest concentration of multicultural peoples outside of Birmingham and London.

But due to chronic underfunding in Luton where it was used almost entirely as a sink town to house cheap labour for vaxhall it has had significant social problems.

there are some fundamental changes which need to be made in luton and it would need significant amounts of cash and massive social change in the area.

otherwise this will continue to happen with these incursions on ether side be it relgious or nationalatiy or race based wars.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
The BNP has always been strong in the area because at one point luton was the largest concentration of multicultural peoples outside of Birmingham and London.
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Garf, you were asked before - where is your evidence for this statement?

You got your knickers in a twist earlier asking me for 'evidence' of my view - I answered you, could you answer the folk that have asked you the same question

I live and have lived in various 'large concentration of multicultural peoples' - no 'strong' BNP in any of these
 
dylans said:
It takes a big man to admit that he is utterly out of his depth.
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Would you like to explain the reaction of Luton Muslims to those idiots who had provoked the second bunch of idiots to have a go at anyone who happens to be asian, dylans.

Are the majority of Muslims in Luton pro-imperialist flagwavers???

:D
 
dennisr said:
Would you like to explain the reaction of Luton Muslims to those idiots who had provoked the second bunch of idiots to have a go at anyone who happens to be asian
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Fear. Fear of the BNP and also of the mainstream media. It's not that they think the war is a good thing, or even that they'd disagree with calling British soldiers "butchers of Basra." I doubt if there's a Muslim in the world who'd argue with that. Of course most British Muslims don't want to call attention to themselves, and they certainly don't want outside agitators calling attention to them. But we mustn't construe that as indicating support for imperialism.
 
phildwyer said:
Fear. Fear of the BNP and also of the mainstream media. It's not that they think the war is a good thing, or even that they'd disagree with calling British soldiers "butchers of Basra." I doubt if there's a Muslim in the world who'd argue with that. Of course most British Muslims don't want to call attention to themselves, and they certainly don't want outside agitators calling attention to them.
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You are not saying that most Luton muslims are scared cowards who are simply trying to hide and remain invisible are you dwyr??

I think people don't like a tiny minority of idiots claiming they represent all muslims in Luton and, like most other folk they recognise that provocation will only reinforce division and stereotyping. I don't get the impression this is the action an unconfident community - but a thinking one.

phildwyer said:
But we mustn't construe that as indicating support for imperialism.
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I would agree - but if we take the logical conclusions that are drawn from dylans simplistic black and white worldview....

"if you are not with us, you are with them"

Dylan wanted to paint himself as 'on the side of the Muslims' (with his equally easy stereotypes, and from the safety of an anonymous bulletin board...) - slandering and condemning anyone on these boards who did not follow his line - But who is on the side of the muslim people of Luton now?
 
dennisr said:
You are not saying that most Luton muslims are scared cowards who are simply trying to hide and remain invisible are you dwyr??
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Most people, especially members of a vulnerably minority, want a quiet life. The overwhelming majority of Muslims agree with what the protesters say, they just don't want it said in their back yard. And I for one cannot blame them.
 
phildwyer said:
Most people, especially members of a vulnerably minority, want a quiet life. The overwhelming majority of Muslims agree with what the protesters say, they just don't want it said in their back yard. And I for one cannot blame them.
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So you would agree with those people that the original demonstration was idiotically provocative - resulting in a very negative reaction against the wider muslim community in Luton. And you would agree that the wider muslim community in Luton think this is not the way to raise your anti-imperilaist concerns or build wider support for them?

OR

Do you think we should have uncritically support the 8 fundie idiots who started all this?

(ps I am avoiding taking up my concern with you presentation of a "vulnerable minority" ... its all seems a bit liberal cliche/helpless victim type stuff and not my - admitedly limited - experience of muslim folk from Luton at all - but, anyway)
 
dennisr said:
Dylan wanted to paint himself as 'on the side of the Muslims' (with his equally easy stereotypes, and from the safety of an anonymous bulletin board...) - slandering and condemning anyone on these boards who did not follow his line - But who is on the side of the muslim people of Luton now?
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Sums dylans and his laughable brand of anti imperialism up perfectly id say.
What can he say now ay.... muslims disagreeing with him......The ungrateful bastards.....
 
dennisr said:
So you would agree with those people that the original demonstration was idiotically provocative - resulting in a very negative reaction against the wider muslim community in Luton. And you would agree that the wider muslim community in Luton think this is not the way to raise your anti-imperilaist concerns or build wider support for them?

OR

Do you think we should have uncritically support the 8 fundie idiots who started all this?
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My heart says the latter.

Then again if I was a middle-aged family man living in Luton I wouldn't want the radicals in my community bringing the BNP to my doorstep.

Then again if I was a bold single young Muslim with nothing to lose I'd want to register my anti-imperialism as forcefully as possible.
 
tbaldwin said:
Sums dylans and his laughable brand of anti imperialism up perfectly id say.
What can he say now ay.... muslims disagreeing with him......The ungrateful bastards.....
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They (actually some of them) disagree with him over tactics. They don't disagree with his analysis of the situation in Iraq, quite the contrary.
 
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